Discussion:
are jehovahs allowed in to other church like catholic or church of England????????
(too old to reply)
Becky
2004-01-08 23:38:56 UTC
Permalink
even if they have to go to a funeral?
The Nolalu Barn Owl
2004-01-09 02:09:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Becky
even if they have to go to a funeral?
This question has numerous answers.

ANY sinner is allowed to enter a Roman Catholic Church even a
Jehovah's Witness but they are NOT allowed to receive Holy Communion.
The same should be true of the Church of England or any of the other
heretical Christian churches.

The Watchtower Society strictly forbids a Jehovah's Witness to enter
another church of any kind. Funerals are off limits.

--
Gordie

"Remember: every sect in the world feeds off of the Catholic Church.
Our Holy Catholic Church is like a great and extremely precious
unpolished diamond, from which every so often somebody takes a particle
and polishes it--not without the help of the evil one--so that it begins
to shine better that the great unpolished diamond. And this shine draws
men, dazzles them and deceives them, so that the particle necessarily is
worn out and comes to nothing. This is the game of deception, which
appears and reappears with time. Jesus warned us to watch out for it!"

Padre (Saint) Pio - Stories of Padre Pio p.60
by Madame Katharina Tangari
ISBN 0-89555-536-0
Mark Gonzales
2004-01-09 02:36:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Nolalu Barn Owl
Post by Becky
even if they have to go to a funeral?
This question has numerous answers.
ANY sinner is allowed to enter a Roman Catholic Church even a
Jehovah's Witness but they are NOT allowed to receive Holy Communion.
The same should be true of the Church of England or any of the other
heretical Christian churches.
The Watchtower Society strictly forbids a Jehovah's Witness to enter
another church of any kind. Funerals are off limits.
My mom is a JW fanatic. She's a retired Regular Pioneer who gave a talk at a
recent Circuit Assembly. She goes to Roman Catholic funerals (both my wife's
grandparents and uncle) and weddings (wife's sister and brother). So does my
father who is a Ministerial Servant. My wife, while being an active baptized
JW, stood in her Catholic sister's wedding. At my wife's grandmother's
Catholic funeral, I cracked a joke that a certain pew in the back should be
labeled the "JW Pew" as there was about 15 JWs sitting on it.

In other words, you're full of crap. If my mom will do it, it MUST be ok!
--


Mark
Post by The Nolalu Barn Owl
--
Gordie
"Remember: every sect in the world feeds off of the Catholic Church.
Our Holy Catholic Church is like a great and extremely precious
unpolished diamond, from which every so often somebody takes a particle
and polishes it--not without the help of the evil one--so that it begins
to shine better that the great unpolished diamond. And this shine draws
men, dazzles them and deceives them, so that the particle necessarily is
worn out and comes to nothing. This is the game of deception, which
appears and reappears with time. Jesus warned us to watch out for it!"
Padre (Saint) Pio - Stories of Padre Pio p.60
by Madame Katharina Tangari
ISBN 0-89555-536-0
Mark Gonzales
2004-01-09 03:08:31 UTC
Permalink
Follow-up:

For clarification, my mom has been a Pioneer (a JW who does ALLOT of door
knocking and such) for about a year since retiring from the Federal
Government. She keeps a very large Roman Catholic Bible in the middle of her
living room (first page or so is a pic of the Pope and it includes allot of
Catholic prayers and beliefs). She owns another 3 or 4 Catholic Bibles as
well as a KJV, but her most cherished Bible is a Douay-Rheims version which
belonged to her mother.
--


Mark
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by The Nolalu Barn Owl
Post by Becky
even if they have to go to a funeral?
This question has numerous answers.
ANY sinner is allowed to enter a Roman Catholic Church even a
Jehovah's Witness but they are NOT allowed to receive Holy Communion.
The same should be true of the Church of England or any of the other
heretical Christian churches.
The Watchtower Society strictly forbids a Jehovah's Witness to enter
another church of any kind. Funerals are off limits.
My mom is a JW fanatic. She's a retired Regular Pioneer who gave a talk at a
recent Circuit Assembly. She goes to Roman Catholic funerals (both my wife's
grandparents and uncle) and weddings (wife's sister and brother). So does my
father who is a Ministerial Servant. My wife, while being an active baptized
JW, stood in her Catholic sister's wedding. At my wife's grandmother's
Catholic funeral, I cracked a joke that a certain pew in the back should be
labeled the "JW Pew" as there was about 15 JWs sitting on it.
In other words, you're full of crap. If my mom will do it, it MUST be ok!
--
Mark
Post by The Nolalu Barn Owl
--
Gordie
"Remember: every sect in the world feeds off of the Catholic Church.
Our Holy Catholic Church is like a great and extremely precious
unpolished diamond, from which every so often somebody takes a particle
and polishes it--not without the help of the evil one--so that it begins
to shine better that the great unpolished diamond. And this shine draws
men, dazzles them and deceives them, so that the particle necessarily is
worn out and comes to nothing. This is the game of deception, which
appears and reappears with time. Jesus warned us to watch out for it!"
Padre (Saint) Pio - Stories of Padre Pio p.60
by Madame Katharina Tangari
ISBN 0-89555-536-0
Terry/AntiWT
2004-01-09 09:34:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by The Nolalu Barn Owl
Post by Becky
even if they have to go to a funeral?
This question has numerous answers.
ANY sinner is allowed to enter a Roman Catholic Church even a
Jehovah's Witness but they are NOT allowed to receive Holy Communion.
The same should be true of the Church of England or any of the other
heretical Christian churches.
The Watchtower Society strictly forbids a Jehovah's Witness to enter
another church of any kind. Funerals are off limits.
My mom is a JW fanatic. She's a retired Regular Pioneer who gave a talk at a
recent Circuit Assembly. She goes to Roman Catholic funerals (both my wife's
grandparents and uncle) and weddings (wife's sister and brother). So does my
father who is a Ministerial Servant. My wife, while being an active baptized
JW, stood in her Catholic sister's wedding. At my wife's grandmother's
Catholic funeral, I cracked a joke that a certain pew in the back should be
labeled the "JW Pew" as there was about 15 JWs sitting on it.
In other words, you're full of crap. If my mom will do it, it MUST be ok!
--
Mark
Mark, I'll confirm what you say except the crap part. My wife, a JW, has
attended weddings and funerals in other than WT churches (halls).

Gramps
Prominent Bethelite
2004-01-09 11:45:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Nolalu Barn Owl
Post by Becky
even if they have to go to a funeral?
This question has numerous answers.
ANY sinner is allowed to enter a Roman Catholic Church even a
Jehovah's Witness but they are NOT allowed to receive Holy Communion.
The same should be true of the Church of England or any of the other
heretical Christian churches.
The Watchtower Society strictly forbids a Jehovah's Witness to enter
another church of any kind. Funerals are off limits.
My mom is a JW fanatic.She's a retired Regular Pioneer who gave a talk at
a recent Circuit Assembly. She goes to Roman Catholic funerals (both my
wife's grandparents and uncle) and weddings (wife's sister and brother).
So does my father who is a Ministerial Servant. My wife, while being an
active baptized JW, stood in her Catholic sister's wedding. At my wife's
grandmother's Catholic funeral, I cracked a joke that a certain pew in the
back should be labeled the "JW Pew" as there was about 15 JWs sitting on
it.
In other words, you're full of crap. If my mom will do it, it MUST be ok!
--
Mark
No, Mark, it is not "The Nolalu Barn Owl" who is "full of crap" - he has
pretty much correctly described Watchtower policy.

While Mark may not be lying (he is given to defending the old whore from
time to time, though), Mark - do give me the name(s) of the congregations
involved, and I assure you an investigation will be held into these matters
by the Presiding Overseer(s). I am only asking this politely as I can, of
course, identify the congregations without your assistance.


This is CURRENT Watchtower dogma on the matter of attending services at
other churches:

"May dedicated Christians attend church funerals of other religious
organizations?.. Some Christians may feel obligated to attend a church
funeral because of a debt of gratitude, because a close relative is
involved or due to pressures from an unbelieving mate.. such a course is
certainly fraught with dangers and problems .. a church funeral is not held
primarily to afford friends an opportunity to console the bereaved family
[it] is really a religious service. It therefore is likely to involve a
sermon advocating such unscriptural ideas as the immortality of the soul
and that all good people go to heaven. It may also involve unscriptural
practices such as making the sign of the cross and most likely the joining
in united prayer with a priest or minister of another religion. Of course,
a Christian could not take part in such, in view of the command at
Revelation 18:4.. There are, of course, spiritual hazards in going to any
place of false worship.
the Christian wife who has an unbelieving husband .. She would do well
to pick a time when he was relaxed and in a good frame of mind .. point out
that if she attended and did not take part in the ritual it might be very
embarrassing to others, and especially to her husband.. Thus also the
danger of performing an act of apostasy and displeasing Jehovah God can be
avoided."
- The Watchtower, March 15 1970 issue, pp191-2

Summary: -N-O- ATTENDANCE AT ANYONE'S FUNERAL AT ANOTHER CHURCH



And if you attend the funeral of one who has been excommunicated from the
JW cult, the penalty may well be excommunication. There are a dozen places
where the Watchtower warns against such attendance at a funeral.


As to what the Watchtower says about other churches, every filthy epithet
you can imagine short of "four-letter words" have been used by the JWs...
Literally, a thousand examples. Here is a mild one from the 1993
"Jehovah's Witnesses, Proclaimers of God's Kingdom" book, which quotes
early Watchtower wording absolutely approvingly:

"this infamous harlot was not merely the Catholic Church. Thus, while The
Watchtower of November 1879 identified Babylon the Great with the 'Papacy
as a SYSTEM,' the article added: 'We must go further and implicate, (not
the individual members, but the church systems) other churches united to
the Empire of earth. Every church claiming to be a chaste virgin espoused
to Christ, but in reality united to and supported by the world (beast) we
must condemn as being in scripture language a harlot."




So, Mark Gonzales, your birth mother's own chosen "spiritual mother"
teaches that your birth mother attends the premises of HARLOTS. What does
that make each of them? And as for you:
"Tis a wise child who knows his own father"
;-)



()""""""() ()""""() ()""""() ()""""() ()""""""()
() () () () () () () () () ()
() () () () () () () () () ()
() () () () () () () () () ()
() `""""""` `"""""` `"""""` `"""""` ()
() ()
() The Watchtower and the Jehovah's Witnesses Cult ()
() is a CUNNING CONTRIVANCE, a FRAUD, a DIRTY LIE, ()
() a WOLFISH TRICK, a SCAM, a CRUEL HOAX, a WICKED ()
() CHEAT, the embodiment of SPIRITUAL PORNOGRAPHY, ()
() a PARADISE for FILTHY PEDOPHILES, a BLASPHEMOUS ()
() INSULT, an ABOMINATION, a DISGUSTING THING, the ()
() GREAT HARLOT OF BABYLON, an ANTICHRIST, a FALSE ()
() PROPHET, a HIGHLY DECEITFUL WITNESS, a SCANDAL, ()
() a DAMNED SATANIC OUTRAGE from start to finish.. ()
() ()
`""""() So, ()""""`
() why ()
() argue ()
`"""() about ()"""`
() it? ()
() ;-) ()


Love
___ _ __
/ _ \_______ __ _ (_)__ ___ ___ / /_
/ ___/ __/ _ \/ ' \/ / _ \/ -_) _ \/ __/
/_/ /_/ \___/_/_/_/_/_//_/\__/_//_/\__/
___ __ __ ___ __
/ _ )___ / /_/ / ___ / (_) /____
/ _ / -_) __/ _ \/ -_) / / __/ -_)
/____/\__/\__/_//_/\__/_/_/\__/\__/

Examples of FINE SPIRITUAL FOOD AT THE APPROPRIATE TIME FROM "THE SLAVE":
"We need not here repeat the evidences that the 'seventh trump' began its
sounding in A.D. 1840, and will continue until the end of the time of
trouble" {WT Nov 1880 p1}; "masturbation is no mere innocent pastime but
rather a practice that can lead to homosexual acts" {WT May 15 1970 p315;
also WT Oct 1 1970 p604}; "If heaven were made the receptacle of the
heathen, savages, barbarians, the idiotic, simple, insane and INFANTS, it
would cease to be heaven to a considerable extent, and become a pandemonium
.. billions of ignorant, imbecile and degraded .. never formed characters
[not] fit companions for saints" {WT Oct 15 1896 p245} Fine JW Wisdom!!
----------------------------------------------------------------------

THE LIST OF AMAZING JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES' CLAIMS, BELIEFS & PREDICTIONS
Prepared by MYSELF may be found at the following websites:-
http://www.freeminds.org/history/part1.htm
http://www1.tip.nl/~t661020/wtcitaten/part1.htm
http://localsonly.wilmington.net/jmalik/TheList.zip
http://www.concordance.com/watchtower.htm

It is FULLY IN ACCORDANCE with the teachings of the WATCHTOWER Bible &
Tract Society (WTBTS) for every member of JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES to Carefully
Study the LIST mentioned above, which comprises truly fine scriptural food
from its own publications. Remember the WTBTS told you to confirm whether
what was taught by the WTBTS was in harmony with the Bible - and if not,
not to circulate it {WT Mar 1 1894 repr p1629}, to confirm WT teachings
against the Bible {WT May 1 1934 p131}, to invite critical examination of
your faith {WT Aug 15 1950 p263}, that, far from being wrong, it is your
duty to examine religion to see if it is true or false {WT Nov 15 1963
p688}, that you should actively examine your own religion {The Truth That
Leads To Eternal Life 1968 p13, a WTBTS publication}, that you should check
and examine BOTH sides of a matter {Awake! Oct 22 1973 p6}, that your
religion was in no way afraid of being exposed to scrutiny {WT Aug 1 1978
p12}, that you should to be willing to submit everything to scrutiny
{Awake! Aug 22 1984 p22/28}, that you should not have a closed mind {WT Nov
22 1984 p3-4}, that you should actively refer to the older publications {WT
Jun 15 1985 p12}, that all people are encouraged to examine other religions
and with an open mind {WT Apr 1 1991 p17} and that you are encouraged to
exhibit freedom of thought {Awake! Jun 8 1994 p21}. So, please follow this
advice of the WTBTS, and study that LIST very carefully. "You will know the
Truth and the Truth will set you free."(John 8:32). Fine advice indeed!

THE LIST IS PRODUCED IN DIRECT RESPONSE TO A RECENT REQUEST BY THE WTBTS in
{WT Dec 1 1990 p19}, where it quotes {WT Dec 15 1914 p377-8}: "If any one
knows anything better, let him take it. If any of you ever find anything
better, we hope you will tell us." Kindly, Prominent Bethelite has duly
obliged. Having read it, if you find the WTBTS has ever told falsehoods,
follow the WTBTS advice clearly given in {WT Dec 1 1991 p7} "A religion
that teaches lies cannot be true."; if you find the WTBTS has even made one
false prophecy, follow the WTBTS advice clearly given in {WT Feb 1 1992 p3}
"Beware of False Prophets!" - and cut yourself off from these Foul Cheats.
L Perez
2004-01-09 12:13:51 UTC
Permalink
"Prominent Bethelite" <Anonymous-Remailer who posts pornography under other
peoples names vomited:

Some Christians may feel obligated to attend a church
Post by Prominent Bethelite
funeral because of a debt of gratitude, because a close relative is
involved or due to pressures from an unbelieving mate.. such a course is
certainly fraught with dangers and problems ..
Summary: -N-O- ATTENDANCE AT ANYONE'S FUNERAL AT ANOTHER CHURCH
bad summary... but then what else should we expect from someone who posts
falsely as another person?
--
BEWARE! there are people on this newsgroup who are only here to slander and
lie about Jehovah's Witnesses. They do not offer any alternative
organization... as a matter of fact, some are admitted atheists (Matthew
12:30; John 8:44-47) I have all of their posts filtered out because they can
not hold an intelligent conversation and often resort to lies. They claim to
be quoting from Watch Tower literature but these are *NOT* exact quotes,
they change words and quote things out of context. I don't respond to
spurious fabrications. Hence if you see that I am not answering someone, it
is because their previous attempts at deception have earned them a place in
the 'block sender' file. They exist here only to destroy (1 Corinthians
10:6-11) They speak not as Christians (Ephesians 4:31-32) I do not need to
name them for by their fruits you will recognize them (Matthew 7:16-20) One
has to wonder, why was a newsgroup set up to attack this *one* organization?
Matthew 5:10-12
Anonymous-Remailer AT See DOT Comment DOT Header (Prominent Bethelite)
2004-01-09 19:13:09 UTC
Permalink
Firstly, the rude, obnoxious, dogmatic, idiotic JEHOVAH'S WITNESS "L PEREZ"
is *not* Sherwood Peterson (= SKP and a host of other aliases). Confirmed.

I have obtained via Bethel all the necessary identificatory details for "L
PEREZ", including his New Jersey address, phone number, etc. While L PEREZ
may post in the same braindead manner as SKP, L PEREZ is not SKP. I have
proof of this. No apologies needed to L PEREZ by me as, unlike L PEREZ, I
do not bear false witness against others, and have never said L PEREZ was
"Sherwood Peterson".

Folks, we have a new cult rabid and childish loon amongst us - L PEREZ.



On Fri, 9 Jan 2004 05:13:51 -0700 in article
<QbKdnUkdmLudBmOiRVn-***@comcast.com> "L Perez" <***@hotmail.com>
wrote...
Post by L Perez
"Prominent Bethelite" <Anonymous-Remailer who posts pornography under
Post by Prominent Bethelite
Some Christians may feel obligated to attend a church
funeral because of a debt of gratitude, because a close relative is
involved or due to pressures from an unbelieving mate.. such a course is
certainly fraught with dangers and problems ..
Summary: -N-O- ATTENDANCE AT ANYONE'S FUNERAL AT ANOTHER CHURCH
bad summary... but then what else should we expect from someone who posts
falsely as another person?
My summary is correct. When the Watchtower says that a path is dangerous,
problematic or unspiritual, that is as good as a prohibition. The same
language was used to command Jehovah's Witnesses not to read any literature
critical of the Watchtower (as it equates to spiritual pornography). Go
tell your elder you have been reading "Crisis of Conscience", you ignorant
JW, and see how quickly you are disciplined by your cult.



HAVING SEX WITH ANIMALS - JW STYLE, MAKE SURE THEY ARE DEAD FIRST!

I had a look at the offending cartoon (nothing to do with me) showing the
reaction of a householder to two annoying JW pests at his door. It
certainly wasn't even remotely pornographic - it shows how kooky you are.
Your own JW literature describes at many places humans having sex with
animals - here, in "Life Everlasting in Freedom of the Sons of God", a
kooky Watchtower book from 1966, on pages 45-7 the Jehovah's Witnesses
comment without disapproval that JEHOVAH OFFERED ADAM ANIMALS TO HAVE AS
SEXUAL PARTNERS:
"Before God created anything new, a woman, God left the man free to
determine whether there was a suitable companion for him among all the
lower animals. He did not oblige the man to go seeking a companion among
them, thus requiring the use of much time on the man's part, but Jehovah
God brought the various beasts of the earth and the flying creatures of the
heavens before the man. God gave the man the freedom to name these
creatures. But the perfect man, created in God's image and according to
God's likeness, was not inclined to bestiality. He merely acquainted
himself, unafraid, with them and named them, but he found among them no
suitable companion for himself. As a lone human on earth he continued to
worship his God and Creator, not lower animals. He needed no command from
God against animal worship. He had just the one law against improper
eating. -Genesis 2:19,20. After the man fully exercised his freedom to
reject any of the lower creatures as a companion and helper for him, God
acted. 'Hence Jehovah God had a deep sleep fall upon the man and, while he
was sleeping, he took one of his ribs and then closed up the flesh over its
place. And Jehovah God proceeded to build the rib that he had taken from
the man into a woman and to bring her to the man. Then the man said: 'This
is at last bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh. This one will be called
Woman (Ishshah), because from man (ish) this one was taken.'' -Genesis
2:21-23. This reveals that God told the man just how the woman had been
created, to show to the man that she was related to him in flesh and bone,
for she was a part of him. Adam's words on accepting the woman as his wife
make plain that he exercised his free choice to have this woman as his
helper and companion. She was the last one of the creatures that God
brought to Adam to see which creature he would choose as his life-long
companion. [Questions] Before God created woman, why did he bring the
animals to man? What attitudes toward those animals did the man not
manifest? How did God proceed to make woman, and did Adam know this? Did
Adam exercise any freedom of choice in accepting the woman as his
companion?"

And in the "secret" Watchtower Elder's Manual (which ages ago I ensured was
placed on the Internet) "Pay Attention To Yourselves and to All the Flock"
(1977/9, 1981) the definition of "porneia" (a grave sin for which the
penalty is _eternal_ death) was extended on page 93 to acts of bestiality
as in having sex with animals, BUT NOT TO INCLUDE HAVING SEX WITH AN
ANIMAL'S CORPSE. So, in fact, the allegedly "pornographic cartoon" to which
you took such offense is merely an accurate rendition of Watchtower
teaching! LOL! L Perez, you don't even know what your filthy whore of a
"spiritual mother" teaches - having sex with a "dead donkey" is not sinful.

Of course, the Watchtower does not disapprove that much of having sex with
live donkeys either:
"While both homosexuality and bestiality are disgusting perversions, in the
case of neither one is the marriage tie broken" says the January 1, 1972
issue of the Watchtower on p32. How flattering to gays that they are
equated with those who rape animals.

And the Watchtower went on to abuse and threaten gays in far worse ways.
No "xtian" group has slammed gays worse than have the Jehovah's Witnesses.
Their "love"....



A WARNING TO L PEREZ
Post by L Perez
"Prominent Bethelite" <Anonymous-Remailer who posts pornography under
Now, here is a warning, Perez. Stated six times in the Bible, even in your
fraudulent "New World Translation" thereof:--

Exodus 20:16, Deuteronomy 5:20, Matthew 19:18, Mark 10:19, Luke 18:20,
Romans 13:9.

"Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor".

So, you crazy JW cultist and loon, stop accusing me of something I did not
do. Immediately. Forever.

FYI, I am not an atheist, merely an agnostic, and _I am_ concealed well
within the breast of the whorelike Watchtower, seeking to damage her in the
most grievous way I can. I cannot "come out" because:
-- I do more damage within, and
-- the Watchtower's fiendish policy of SHUNNING would force ones I love to
never speak to me ever again.

Simply because the Jehovah's Witnesses cheat and lie all the time (and are
taught that God wants them to do so - see under "theocratic war strategy"
i.e. "deceiving the wolfish foe") does not mean I will.

Yes - JWs are ACTIVELY TAUGHT that LYING is commendable. Here are five
proofs from their own official literature:

"[a lie is] 'a false statement by one to another one who is entitled to
hear and to know the truth, and which false statement tends to work injury
to the other'" {"Riches" p177, written by the then President of the JWs}.

"LIE [definition] .. Lying generally involves saying something false to a
person who is entitled to know the truth and doing so with the intent to
deceive or to injure him or another person.. this does not mean that a
person is under obligation to divulge truthful information to people who
are not entitled to it. ... {Insight 2 p244-5}

"a person is not obligated to divulge truthful information" {WT Dec 15
1993 p25}

"The enemies [of Jehovah's Witnesses] did not deserve to learn the truth"
{WT Feb 1 1956 p80/86}

"No, she replied, and went on her way. Did she tell a lie? No, she did
not. She was not a liar. Rather, she was using theocratic war strategy,
hiding the truth by action and word for the sake of the ministry." {WT May
1 1957 p284-5}

"As a soldier of Christ he is in theocratic warfare and he must exercise
caution when dealing with God's foes. Thus the Scriptures show that for
the purpose of protecting the interests of God's cause, it is proper to
hide the truth from God's enemies." {WT Jun 1 1960 p352}

A "religion" that teaches one to LIE - LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL!


L Perez, do you even ntoice when you are lying now - it has become second
nature, hasn't it, pretending to "worldlies" (the "birdseed class", the way
the JWs refer to the 99.9% of humans who are not JWs - the choice of phrase
because this SIX BILLION are soon going to be food for birds when all of
them, TWO THOUSAND MILLION LITTLE KIDS included, are going to be
SLAUGHTERED at Armageddon by their lunatic killer-gawd "Jehovah") that you
are the "happiest people on earth" while in reality you are assuaged by
fears and doubts and .... Yes, I know. Get out of the whore!



"Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor".

While all religions are "a snare and a racket" (in the words of the
Watchtower itself - they get something right: of course they exclude
themselves from the definition!), the Watchtower is BY FAR the kookiest of
the cults which have lots of followers. You are one of these poor
brainwashed kooks, as your ravings and rantings prove.

"Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor".

If you persist in defaming me, and abusing the hospitality of this
discussion board arj-w, my response will be one which, while quite legal,
will give you MUCH cause to ponder. Step one will involve exposing your
activities to the web. Step two will involve placing, anonymously, all
your abusive online material in the hands of the presiding overseer (no, I
have just seen something - the B.O. will be better) of your congregation.
Steps three to five I will not expand upon. Steps may be taken in any
order or all together without further notice or warning. Trust me, "LP" as
your friends call you. :-)

Let us see what your superiors make of you FLAGRANTLY IGNORING the
Watchtower's command to ABSTAIN FROM THE INTERNET (especially boards and
groups where you will encounter those hostile to the Johos - of course the
cult does not want you exposed to real information that might make you
doubt all the lies you have been fed by the Watchtower)
Post by L Perez
--
BEWARE! there are people on this newsgroup who are only here to slander
Post by Prominent Bethelite
and lie about Jehovah's Witnesses. They do not offer any alternative
organization... as a matter of fact, some are admitted atheists (Matthew
12:30; John 8:44-47) I have all of their posts filtered out because they
can not hold an intelligent conversation and often resort to lies. They
claim to be quoting from Watch Tower literature but these are *NOT* exact
quotes, they change words and quote things out of context. I don't respond
to spurious fabrications. Hence if you see that I am not answering
someone, it is because their previous attempts at deception have earned
them a place in the 'block sender' file. They exist here only to destroy
(1 Corinthians 10:6-11) They speak not as Christians (Ephesians 4:31-32) I
do not need to name them for by their fruits you will recognize them
(Matthew 7:16-20) One has to wonder, why was a newsgroup set up to attack
this *one* organization?
Matthew 5:10-12
Someone told me this was "fine spiritual food at the appropriate time" for
brainwashed Jehovah's Witnesses, but I could not get the link to work.
Perhaps you will have better luck than I, LP!
http://www.goatse.cx/

"Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor".

Did you see the real face of the Watchtower Blather and Trappem Sicksiety?


***************************************************************************
The Watchtower Society and the Jehovah's Witnesses Cult is an embodiment of
SPIRITUAL PORNOGRAPHY, a WOLFISH TRICK, a MOST FILTHY LIE, a CHEAT, a SCAM,
a DISGUSTING ABOMINATION, a BLASPHEMOUS INSULT, a WICKED FRAUD, a DISGRACE,
a SCANDAL, a PEDOPHILE PARADISE - and a DAMNED OUTRAGE from start to finish
***************************************************************************

Love

Prominent Bethelite.

Examples of FINE SPIRITUAL FOOD AT THE APPROPRIATE TIME FROM "THE SLAVE":
"We need not here repeat the evidences that the 'seventh trump' began its
sounding in A.D. 1840, and will continue until the end of the time of
trouble" {WT Nov 1880 p1}; "masturbation is no mere innocent pastime but
rather a practice that can lead to homosexual acts" {WT May 15 1970 p315;
also WT Oct 1 1970 p604}; "If heaven were made the receptacle of the
heathen, savages, barbarians, the idiotic, simple, insane and INFANTS, it
would cease to be heaven to a considerable extent, and become a pandemonium
.. billions of ignorant, imbecile and degraded .. never formed characters
[not] fit companions for saints" {WT Oct 15 1896 p245} Fine JW Wisdom!!
----------------------------------------------------------------------

THE LIST OF AMAZING JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES' CLAIMS, BELIEFS & PREDICTIONS
Prepared by MYSELF may be found at the following websites:-
http://www.freeminds.org/history/part1.htm
http://www1.tip.nl/~t661020/wtcitaten/part1.htm
http://localsonly.wilmington.net/jmalik/TheList.zip
http://www.concordance.com/watchtower.htm

It is FULLY IN ACCORDANCE with the teachings of the WATCHTOWER Bible &
Tract Society (WTBTS) for every member of JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES to Carefully
Study the LIST mentioned above, which comprises truly fine scriptural food
from its own publications. Remember the WTBTS told you to confirm whether
what was taught by the WTBTS was in harmony with the Bible - and if not,
not to circulate it {WT Mar 1 1894 repr p1629}, to confirm WT teachings
against the Bible {WT May 1 1934 p131}, to invite critical examination of
your faith {WT Aug 15 1950 p263}, that, far from being wrong, it is your
duty to examine religion to see if it is true or false {WT Nov 15 1963
p688}, that you should actively examine your own religion {The Truth That
Leads To Eternal Life 1968 p13, a WTBTS publication}, that you should check
and examine BOTH sides of a matter {Awake! Oct 22 1973 p6}, that your
religion was in no way afraid of being exposed to scrutiny {WT Aug 1 1978
p12}, that you should to be willing to submit everything to scrutiny
{Awake! Aug 22 1984 p22/28}, that you should not have a closed mind {WT Nov
22 1984 p3-4}, that you should actively refer to the older publications {WT
Jun 15 1985 p12}, that all people are encouraged to examine other religions
and with an open mind {WT Apr 1 1991 p17} and that you are encouraged to
exhibit freedom of thought {Awake! Jun 8 1994 p21}. So, please follow this
advice of the WTBTS, and study that LIST very carefully. "You will know the
Truth and the Truth will set you free."(John 8:32). Fine advice indeed!

THE LIST IS PRODUCED IN DIRECT RESPONSE TO A RECENT REQUEST BY THE WTBTS in
{WT Dec 1 1990 p19}, where it quotes {WT Dec 15 1914 p377-8}: "If any one
knows anything better, let him take it. If any of you ever find anything
better, we hope you will tell us." Kindly, Prominent Bethelite has duly
obliged. Having read it, if you find the WTBTS has ever told falsehoods,
follow the WTBTS advice clearly given in {WT Dec 1 1991 p7} "A religion
that teaches lies cannot be true."; if you find the WTBTS has even made one
false prophecy, follow the WTBTS advice clearly given in {WT Feb 1 1992 p3}
"Beware of False Prophets!" - and cut yourself off from these Foul Cheats.
Mark Gonzales
2004-01-09 19:30:49 UTC
Permalink
<Anonymous-Remailer AT See DOT Comment DOT Header (Prominent Bethelite)>
Post by Anonymous-Remailer AT See DOT Comment DOT Header (Prominent Bethelite)
My summary is correct. When the Watchtower says that a path is dangerous,
problematic or unspiritual, that is as good as a prohibition. The same
language was used to command Jehovah's Witnesses not to read any literature
critical of the Watchtower (as it equates to spiritual pornography). Go
tell your elder you have been reading "Crisis of Conscience", you ignorant
JW, and see how quickly you are disciplined by your cult.
True, there are some things that a JW may lose his/her privileges in the
congregation over even though it's not a disfellowshipping offence (i.e.
hanging out in bars?). Attending a funeral in a church is not one of these,
though. Have you ever known this to be the case?

Why is this even an issue with you? I don't see why a JW attending a funeral
in a church would make the JWs look any better so why argue about it? We
know how JWs feel about other faiths.
--


Mark
{@()@}
2004-01-09 21:24:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Gonzales
True, there are some things that a JW may lose his/her privileges in the
congregation
** How can working for NOTHING be considered a privilege? Why do they use
the word "privilege" instead of work? Why would anyone want these
"privileges?"

over even though it's not a disfellowshipping offence (i.e.
Post by Mark Gonzales
hanging out in bars?).
** I am not and never was a drinker - so must ask - what's WRONG with
having a few drinks in a bar? Not all bars are fly ridden dens of
iniquity. Many are nice places where people can meet and socialize.
Hang out? What do the JWs consider "hanging out?" What's the harm in
spending time (hanging out?) in a nice bar socializing with others?
--
Words of Wisdom....
After many years of bashing other religions under Judge Rutherford's
rallying cry, "Religion is a snare and a racket", the Watchtower now wants
to be recognized *as* one of those religions so they can receive tax
benefits. Typical.
"Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God
the things that are God's." Matthew 22:21 Vek
(Carol's note: The WT thinks it's above what's written in the Bible.
==================================================



--
Mark Gonzales
2004-01-09 21:41:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by {@()@}
Post by Mark Gonzales
True, there are some things that a JW may lose his/her privileges in the
congregation
** How can working for NOTHING be considered a privilege? Why do they use
the word "privilege" instead of work? Why would anyone want these
"privileges?"
I dunno, Carol. I don't question what other's consider to be a privilege for
them. To each his/her own, I guess.
Post by {@()@}
over even though it's not a disfellowshipping offence (i.e.
Post by Mark Gonzales
hanging out in bars?).
** I am not and never was a drinker - so must ask - what's WRONG with
having a few drinks in a bar? Not all bars are fly ridden dens of
iniquity. Many are nice places where people can meet and socialize.
Hang out? What do the JWs consider "hanging out?" What's the harm in
spending time (hanging out?) in a nice bar socializing with others?
Notice I used a question mark with that example which means that I'm not
sure if my example is even correct, yet you make multiple comments on it
anyway. The main argument is that JWs can and do attend weddings and
funerals in churches with no repercussions. Of course, the decision to do so
is up to the JW but it is certainly not forbidden as someone implied.
--


Mark
Post by {@()@}
--
Words of Wisdom....
After many years of bashing other religions under Judge Rutherford's
rallying cry, "Religion is a snare and a racket", the Watchtower now wants
to be recognized *as* one of those religions so they can receive tax
benefits. Typical.
"Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God
the things that are God's." Matthew 22:21 Vek
(Carol's note: The WT thinks it's above what's written in the Bible.
==================================================
--
The Nolalu Barn Owl
2004-01-11 01:49:52 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 9 Jan 2004 16:41:47 -0500, "Mark Gonzales"
Post by Mark Gonzales
Notice I used a question mark with that example which means that I'm not
sure if my example is even correct, yet you make multiple comments on it
anyway. The main argument is that JWs can and do attend weddings and
funerals in churches with no repercussions. Of course, the decision to do so
is up to the JW but it is certainly not forbidden as someone implied.
--
Mark
Surely then, one would have no problem attending Holy Mass with me and
sitting at my side and explaining how the errors are taught to me and
then admitting doing this to the Elders at the Kingdom Hall.
NOONE from among the Jehovah's Witnesses has EVER taken me up on this
offer. Why is that, pray tell?

--
Gordie

'A Lawyer from Genoa, a cousin of Doctor Festa of Rome persuaded that his cousin
was in a state of exaltation, decided to go incognito to Padre Pio.

As soon as the Father laid eyes on him he exclaimed: "What are you doing here?
You are a Mason!" This was followed by verbal blows and counter-blows which
all ended in the lawyer kneeling down in front of the humble friar who had
converted him.'

Booklet - Who is Padre Pio?, page 18 - Published 1974
Tan Books and Publishers, Inc.P.O. Box 424
Rockford, Illinois 61105
Mark Gonzales
2004-01-11 05:05:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Nolalu Barn Owl
On Fri, 9 Jan 2004 16:41:47 -0500, "Mark Gonzales"
Post by Mark Gonzales
Notice I used a question mark with that example which means that I'm not
sure if my example is even correct, yet you make multiple comments on it
anyway. The main argument is that JWs can and do attend weddings and
funerals in churches with no repercussions. Of course, the decision to do so
is up to the JW but it is certainly not forbidden as someone implied.
--
Mark
Surely then, one would have no problem attending Holy Mass with me and
sitting at my side and explaining how the errors are taught to me and
then admitting doing this to the Elders at the Kingdom Hall.
I think I see the problem. You're just making assumptions - not a good idea.
The Witness Cult is even kookier than the Catholic Cult, IMO. Don't assume
anything.
Post by The Nolalu Barn Owl
NOONE from among the Jehovah's Witnesses has EVER taken me up on this
offer. Why is that, pray tell?
I dunno. Why not ask these JWs you're inventing to church this question
before you spout off more false statements? Just a suggestion.
--


Mark
Post by The Nolalu Barn Owl
--
Gordie
'A Lawyer from Genoa, a cousin of Doctor Festa of Rome persuaded that his cousin
was in a state of exaltation, decided to go incognito to Padre Pio.
As soon as the Father laid eyes on him he exclaimed: "What are you doing here?
You are a Mason!" This was followed by verbal blows and counter-blows which
all ended in the lawyer kneeling down in front of the humble friar who had
converted him.'
Booklet - Who is Padre Pio?, page 18 - Published 1974
Tan Books and Publishers, Inc.P.O. Box 424
Rockford, Illinois 61105
Mark Gonzales
2004-01-11 05:36:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Gonzales
I dunno. Why not ask these JWs you're inventing to church this question
before you spout off more false statements? Just a suggestion.
I normally don't correct typos but this looks weird. That should be
"inviting".
--


Mark
The Nolalu Barn Owl
2004-01-12 03:12:04 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 00:05:39 -0500, "Mark Gonzales"
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by The Nolalu Barn Owl
On Fri, 9 Jan 2004 16:41:47 -0500, "Mark Gonzales"
Post by Mark Gonzales
Notice I used a question mark with that example which means that I'm not
sure if my example is even correct, yet you make multiple comments on it
anyway. The main argument is that JWs can and do attend weddings and
funerals in churches with no repercussions. Of course, the decision to do
so
Post by The Nolalu Barn Owl
Post by Mark Gonzales
is up to the JW but it is certainly not forbidden as someone implied.
--
Mark
Surely then, one would have no problem attending Holy Mass with me and
sitting at my side and explaining how the errors are taught to me and
then admitting doing this to the Elders at the Kingdom Hall.
I think I see the problem. You're just making assumptions - not a good idea.
The Witness Cult is even kookier than the Catholic Cult, IMO. Don't assume
anything.
Post by The Nolalu Barn Owl
NOONE from among the Jehovah's Witnesses has EVER taken me up on this
offer. Why is that, pray tell?
I dunno. Why not ask these JWs you're inventing to church this question
before you spout off more false statements? Just a suggestion.
Actually it is not a false statement. I ask JW's at the door to be a
real friend and accompany me to Holy Mass and give me a jab in the
ribs when they hear something that does not allign with the Bible.
NO TAKERS FOR THE LAST 4 YEARS NOW.
--
Gordie

'The higher the Padre mounted up the scale of perfection, the more fiercely did
Satan attack him. One night he saw his bed surrounded by the most fearful monsters
who shouted to him: "See the Saint is retiring!"

"Yes, in spite of you!" he answered; and was promptly seized, shaken and beaten
to the ground.

The more he was tormented by the Devil, the greater grew his faith and his love
for Our Lord.'

Booklet - Who is Padre Pio?, page 6 - Published 1974
Tan Books and Publishers, Inc.P.O. Box 424
Rockford, Illinois 61105
Mark Gonzales
2004-01-12 03:36:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Nolalu Barn Owl
Actually it is not a false statement. I ask JW's at the door to be a
real friend and accompany me to Holy Mass and give me a jab in the
ribs when they hear something that does not allign with the Bible.
NO TAKERS FOR THE LAST 4 YEARS NOW.
Your statement, "The Watchtower Society strictly forbids a Jehovah's Witness
to enter another church of any kind. Funerals are off limits." IS a false
statement. Sorry, but I don't know what your comments above have to do with
this.
--


Mark
Post by The Nolalu Barn Owl
--
Gordie
'The higher the Padre mounted up the scale of perfection, the more fiercely did
Satan attack him. One night he saw his bed surrounded by the most fearful monsters
who shouted to him: "See the Saint is retiring!"
"Yes, in spite of you!" he answered; and was promptly seized, shaken and beaten
to the ground.
The more he was tormented by the Devil, the greater grew his faith and his love
for Our Lord.'
Booklet - Who is Padre Pio?, page 6 - Published 1974
Tan Books and Publishers, Inc.P.O. Box 424
Rockford, Illinois 61105
The Nolalu Barn Owl
2004-01-13 02:09:38 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 22:36:24 -0500, "Mark Gonzales"
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by The Nolalu Barn Owl
Actually it is not a false statement. I ask JW's at the door to be a
real friend and accompany me to Holy Mass and give me a jab in the
ribs when they hear something that does not allign with the Bible.
NO TAKERS FOR THE LAST 4 YEARS NOW.
Your statement, "The Watchtower Society strictly forbids a Jehovah's Witness
to enter another church of any kind. Funerals are off limits." IS a false
statement. Sorry, but I don't know what your comments above have to do with
this.
It is true as far as I have been made aware. IF I am wrong and I am
able to be proven wrong then I will be the first to admit it.
It does appear that nobody can agree on the real truth about this
subject so I guess we will never know.
Theocratic Warefare aside, how am I to trust that the answer I recieve
will be the truth, especially since they are back and forth and back
again?
--
Gordie

'A certain sick woman in Borgomanero was visited by the Padre through bilocation;
she begged him to leave her some remembrance of his visit, at which he placed
his wounded hand on the edge of her bed. Five boodstains in the form of crosses
remained upon the sheet, a fact that needs no explanation.'

Booklet - Who is Padre Pio?, page 34 - Published 1974
Tan Books and Publishers, Inc.P.O. Box 424
Rockford, Illinois 61105
Mark Gonzales
2004-01-13 02:58:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Nolalu Barn Owl
On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 22:36:24 -0500, "Mark Gonzales"
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by The Nolalu Barn Owl
Actually it is not a false statement. I ask JW's at the door to be a
real friend and accompany me to Holy Mass and give me a jab in the
ribs when they hear something that does not allign with the Bible.
NO TAKERS FOR THE LAST 4 YEARS NOW.
Your statement, "The Watchtower Society strictly forbids a Jehovah's Witness
to enter another church of any kind. Funerals are off limits." IS a false
statement. Sorry, but I don't know what your comments above have to do with
this.
It is true as far as I have been made aware.
So where did you get this bogus information from?
Post by The Nolalu Barn Owl
IF I am wrong and I am
able to be proven wrong then I will be the first to admit it.
You HAVE been proven wrong and from multiple sources. You just refuse to see
it.
Post by The Nolalu Barn Owl
It does appear that nobody can agree on the real truth about this
subject so I guess we will never know.
There was never a disagreement on this subject as far as I can tell.
Post by The Nolalu Barn Owl
Theocratic Warefare aside, how am I to trust that the answer I recieve
will be the truth, especially since they are back and forth and back
again?
You refuse to except the proof provided (and from anti-JWs no less), and
then you begin preaching your own brand of cultism? I don't know what else
to say.

Maybe you should just focus own your own cult and let those in-the-know
focus on this one.
--


Mark
Post by The Nolalu Barn Owl
--
Gordie
'A certain sick woman in Borgomanero was visited by the Padre through bilocation;
she begged him to leave her some remembrance of his visit, at which he placed
his wounded hand on the edge of her bed. Five boodstains in the form of crosses
remained upon the sheet, a fact that needs no explanation.'
Booklet - Who is Padre Pio?, page 34 - Published 1974
Tan Books and Publishers, Inc.P.O. Box 424
Rockford, Illinois 61105
The Nolalu Barn Owl
2004-01-14 02:07:41 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 21:58:46 -0500, "Mark Gonzales"
Post by The Nolalu Barn Owl
Post by The Nolalu Barn Owl
On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 22:36:24 -0500, "Mark Gonzales"
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by The Nolalu Barn Owl
Actually it is not a false statement. I ask JW's at the door to be a
real friend and accompany me to Holy Mass and give me a jab in the
ribs when they hear something that does not allign with the Bible.
NO TAKERS FOR THE LAST 4 YEARS NOW.
Your statement, "The Watchtower Society strictly forbids a Jehovah's
Witness
Post by The Nolalu Barn Owl
Post by Mark Gonzales
to enter another church of any kind. Funerals are off limits." IS a
false
Post by The Nolalu Barn Owl
Post by Mark Gonzales
statement. Sorry, but I don't know what your comments above have to do
with
Post by The Nolalu Barn Owl
Post by Mark Gonzales
this.
It is true as far as I have been made aware.
So where did you get this bogus information from?
Post by The Nolalu Barn Owl
IF I am wrong and I am
able to be proven wrong then I will be the first to admit it.
You HAVE been proven wrong and from multiple sources. You just refuse to see
it.
Post by The Nolalu Barn Owl
It does appear that nobody can agree on the real truth about this
subject so I guess we will never know.
There was never a disagreement on this subject as far as I can tell.
Post by The Nolalu Barn Owl
Theocratic Warefare aside, how am I to trust that the answer I recieve
will be the truth, especially since they are back and forth and back
again?
You refuse to except the proof provided (and from anti-JWs no less), and
then you begin preaching your own brand of cultism? I don't know what else
to say.
Maybe you should just focus own your own cult and let those in-the-know
focus on this one.
Heresay is never proof. There will always be someone who says
something contrary just to grease the wheel (so to speak). To be
proven wrong require neccessarily that some Watchtower literature be
quoted as support.
Anyway, sorry I tried to help the person who originally asked.

--
Gordie

"Several hundreds of miraculous cures meanwhile had been registered:
cures of tuberculosis, Pott's disease, blindness, deafness,
spinal meningitis, cancer, paralysis and many other afflictions
of which Father Fonseca, for example, gives ample accounts,
with names, dates, and details, in his well-documented book.
Only last June (1946) there was a great sensation over the
instant healing of Miss Maria José da Silva of Tomar, of
tuberculosis. The following September 13, when a lame youth
threw away his crutches during a procession, and walked upright
for the first time in many years, he was congratulated by a
great throng of men and women, many of whom were weeping with joy,
amoung them the ex-Queen of Italy and her daughter. Of the
moral cures--the conversions, the broken homes restored,
the return of hafdened sinners to the practice of the
Faith--there have been thousands"
Our Lady of Fatima by William Thomas Walsh, Doubleday books,
first published 1954
ISBN - 0-385-02869-5
L Perez
2004-01-14 04:38:55 UTC
Permalink
I have asked you not to post this junk to rec.music.progressive. Please be
respectful and comply.
Pagan
2004-01-14 05:57:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Nolalu Barn Owl
Heresay is never proof. There will always be someone who says
something contrary just to grease the wheel (so to speak). To be
proven wrong require neccessarily that some Watchtower literature be
quoted as support.
Anyway, sorry I tried to help the person who originally asked.
=================
They don't accept their own literature. They either ignore it or deny it.
If backed into a corner they'll simply call it "old light" no matter how
many people the WTS killed over the years.
--
Me......
THE LIST OF AMAZING JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES' CLAIMS,
BELIEFS & PREDICTIONS........
Prepared by PB may be found at the following websites:-
http://jwfiles.com
www.jehovah.org.uk
http://uspdr.com/ <--their property!
http://www.freeminds.org/history/part1.htm
http://www1.tip.nl/~t661020/wtcitaten/part1.htm
http://localsonly.wilmington.net/jmalik/TheList.zip
http://www.concordance.com/watchtower.htm
http://www.silentlambs.org/ <--their perverts.
Galatians 4:16 (NWT) "Well, then, have I become your enemy because I tell
you the truth?"
~~~ }<((((((O> ~~~}<(((((((o> ~~~}<{{{{{{o>
L Perez
2004-01-13 07:34:23 UTC
Permalink
If you promise to stop plaguing rec.music.progressive with your posts, I'll
go with you Gordie!!!

LP
Post by The Nolalu Barn Owl
On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 00:05:39 -0500, "Mark Gonzales"
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by The Nolalu Barn Owl
On Fri, 9 Jan 2004 16:41:47 -0500, "Mark Gonzales"
Post by Mark Gonzales
Notice I used a question mark with that example which means that I'm not
sure if my example is even correct, yet you make multiple comments on it
anyway. The main argument is that JWs can and do attend weddings and
funerals in churches with no repercussions. Of course, the decision to do
so
Post by The Nolalu Barn Owl
Post by Mark Gonzales
is up to the JW but it is certainly not forbidden as someone implied.
--
Mark
Surely then, one would have no problem attending Holy Mass with me and
sitting at my side and explaining how the errors are taught to me and
then admitting doing this to the Elders at the Kingdom Hall.
I think I see the problem. You're just making assumptions - not a good idea.
The Witness Cult is even kookier than the Catholic Cult, IMO. Don't assume
anything.
Post by The Nolalu Barn Owl
NOONE from among the Jehovah's Witnesses has EVER taken me up on this
offer. Why is that, pray tell?
I dunno. Why not ask these JWs you're inventing to church this question
before you spout off more false statements? Just a suggestion.
Actually it is not a false statement. I ask JW's at the door to be a
real friend and accompany me to Holy Mass and give me a jab in the
ribs when they hear something that does not allign with the Bible.
NO TAKERS FOR THE LAST 4 YEARS NOW.
--
Gordie
'The higher the Padre mounted up the scale of perfection, the more fiercely did
Satan attack him. One night he saw his bed surrounded by the most fearful monsters
who shouted to him: "See the Saint is retiring!"
"Yes, in spite of you!" he answered; and was promptly seized, shaken and beaten
to the ground.
The more he was tormented by the Devil, the greater grew his faith and his love
for Our Lord.'
Booklet - Who is Padre Pio?, page 6 - Published 1974
Tan Books and Publishers, Inc.P.O. Box 424
Rockford, Illinois 61105
L Perez
2004-01-11 06:29:06 UTC
Permalink
I'll go with ya Gordie!
--
BEWARE! there are people on this newsgroup who are only here to slander and
lie about Jehovah's Witnesses. They do not offer any alternative
organization... as a matter of fact, some are admitted atheists (Matthew
12:30; John 8:44-47) I have all of their posts filtered out because they can
not hold an intelligent conversation and often resort to lies. They claim to
be quoting from Watch Tower literature but these are *NOT* exact quotes,
they change words and quote things out of context. I don't respond to
spurious fabrications. Hence if you see that I am not answering someone, it
is because their previous attempts at deception have earned them a place in
the 'block sender' file. They exist here only to destroy (1 Corinthians
10:6-11) They speak not as Christians (Ephesians 4:31-32) I do not need to
name them for by their fruits you will recognize them (Matthew 7:16-20) One
has to wonder, why was a newsgroup set up to attack this *one* organization?
Matthew 5:10-12
Post by The Nolalu Barn Owl
On Fri, 9 Jan 2004 16:41:47 -0500, "Mark Gonzales"
Post by Mark Gonzales
Notice I used a question mark with that example which means that I'm not
sure if my example is even correct, yet you make multiple comments on it
anyway. The main argument is that JWs can and do attend weddings and
funerals in churches with no repercussions. Of course, the decision to do so
is up to the JW but it is certainly not forbidden as someone implied.
--
Mark
Surely then, one would have no problem attending Holy Mass with me and
sitting at my side and explaining how the errors are taught to me and
then admitting doing this to the Elders at the Kingdom Hall.
NOONE from among the Jehovah's Witnesses has EVER taken me up on this
offer. Why is that, pray tell?
--
Gordie
'A Lawyer from Genoa, a cousin of Doctor Festa of Rome persuaded that his cousin
was in a state of exaltation, decided to go incognito to Padre Pio.
As soon as the Father laid eyes on him he exclaimed: "What are you doing here?
You are a Mason!" This was followed by verbal blows and counter-blows which
all ended in the lawyer kneeling down in front of the humble friar who had
converted him.'
Booklet - Who is Padre Pio?, page 18 - Published 1974
Tan Books and Publishers, Inc.P.O. Box 424
Rockford, Illinois 61105
Mark Gonzales
2004-01-11 08:59:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by L Perez
I'll go with ya Gordie!
The JWs could learn a thing or two from Mass. You get to move around allot
and it only lasts an hour! ;-) The chanting is a little weird, though. And
sometimes you get a little wet.
--


Mark
Post by L Perez
--
BEWARE! there are people on this newsgroup who are only here to slander and
lie about Jehovah's Witnesses. They do not offer any alternative
organization... as a matter of fact, some are admitted atheists (Matthew
12:30; John 8:44-47) I have all of their posts filtered out because they can
not hold an intelligent conversation and often resort to lies. They claim to
be quoting from Watch Tower literature but these are *NOT* exact quotes,
they change words and quote things out of context. I don't respond to
spurious fabrications. Hence if you see that I am not answering someone, it
is because their previous attempts at deception have earned them a place in
the 'block sender' file. They exist here only to destroy (1 Corinthians
10:6-11) They speak not as Christians (Ephesians 4:31-32) I do not need to
name them for by their fruits you will recognize them (Matthew 7:16-20) One
has to wonder, why was a newsgroup set up to attack this *one*
organization?
Post by L Perez
Matthew 5:10-12
Post by The Nolalu Barn Owl
On Fri, 9 Jan 2004 16:41:47 -0500, "Mark Gonzales"
Post by Mark Gonzales
Notice I used a question mark with that example which means that I'm not
sure if my example is even correct, yet you make multiple comments on it
anyway. The main argument is that JWs can and do attend weddings and
funerals in churches with no repercussions. Of course, the decision to
do
Post by L Perez
so
Post by The Nolalu Barn Owl
Post by Mark Gonzales
is up to the JW but it is certainly not forbidden as someone implied.
--
Mark
Surely then, one would have no problem attending Holy Mass with me and
sitting at my side and explaining how the errors are taught to me and
then admitting doing this to the Elders at the Kingdom Hall.
NOONE from among the Jehovah's Witnesses has EVER taken me up on this
offer. Why is that, pray tell?
--
Gordie
'A Lawyer from Genoa, a cousin of Doctor Festa of Rome persuaded that
his
Post by L Perez
cousin
Post by The Nolalu Barn Owl
was in a state of exaltation, decided to go incognito to Padre Pio.
As soon as the Father laid eyes on him he exclaimed: "What are you doing
here?
Post by The Nolalu Barn Owl
You are a Mason!" This was followed by verbal blows and counter-blows
which
Post by The Nolalu Barn Owl
all ended in the lawyer kneeling down in front of the humble friar who
had
Post by The Nolalu Barn Owl
converted him.'
Booklet - Who is Padre Pio?, page 18 - Published 1974
Tan Books and Publishers, Inc.P.O. Box 424
Rockford, Illinois 61105
L Perez
2004-01-11 10:15:48 UTC
Permalink
I know, believe me... I was a catholic for a long time
--
BEWARE! there are people on this newsgroup who are only here to slander and
lie about Jehovah's Witnesses. They do not offer any alternative
organization... as a matter of fact, some are admitted atheists (Matthew
12:30; John 8:44-47) I have all of their posts filtered out because they can
not hold an intelligent conversation and often resort to lies. They claim to
be quoting from Watch Tower literature but these are *NOT* exact quotes,
they change words and quote things out of context. I don't respond to
spurious fabrications. Hence if you see that I am not answering someone, it
is because their previous attempts at deception have earned them a place in
the 'block sender' file. They exist here only to destroy (1 Corinthians
10:6-11) They speak not as Christians (Ephesians 4:31-32) I do not need to
name them for by their fruits you will recognize them (Matthew 7:16-20) One
has to wonder, why was a newsgroup set up to attack this *one* organization?
Matthew 5:10-12
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by L Perez
I'll go with ya Gordie!
The JWs could learn a thing or two from Mass. You get to move around allot
and it only lasts an hour! ;-) The chanting is a little weird, though. And
sometimes you get a little wet.
--
Mark
Post by L Perez
--
BEWARE! there are people on this newsgroup who are only here to slander
and
Post by L Perez
lie about Jehovah's Witnesses. They do not offer any alternative
organization... as a matter of fact, some are admitted atheists (Matthew
12:30; John 8:44-47) I have all of their posts filtered out because they
can
Post by L Perez
not hold an intelligent conversation and often resort to lies. They
claim
Post by Mark Gonzales
to
Post by L Perez
be quoting from Watch Tower literature but these are *NOT* exact quotes,
they change words and quote things out of context. I don't respond to
spurious fabrications. Hence if you see that I am not answering someone,
it
Post by L Perez
is because their previous attempts at deception have earned them a place
in
Post by L Perez
the 'block sender' file. They exist here only to destroy (1 Corinthians
10:6-11) They speak not as Christians (Ephesians 4:31-32) I do not need to
name them for by their fruits you will recognize them (Matthew 7:16-20)
One
Post by L Perez
has to wonder, why was a newsgroup set up to attack this *one*
organization?
Post by L Perez
Matthew 5:10-12
Post by The Nolalu Barn Owl
On Fri, 9 Jan 2004 16:41:47 -0500, "Mark Gonzales"
Post by Mark Gonzales
Notice I used a question mark with that example which means that I'm
not
Post by L Perez
Post by The Nolalu Barn Owl
Post by Mark Gonzales
sure if my example is even correct, yet you make multiple comments on
it
Post by L Perez
Post by The Nolalu Barn Owl
Post by Mark Gonzales
anyway. The main argument is that JWs can and do attend weddings and
funerals in churches with no repercussions. Of course, the decision to
do
Post by L Perez
so
Post by The Nolalu Barn Owl
Post by Mark Gonzales
is up to the JW but it is certainly not forbidden as someone implied.
--
Mark
Surely then, one would have no problem attending Holy Mass with me and
sitting at my side and explaining how the errors are taught to me and
then admitting doing this to the Elders at the Kingdom Hall.
NOONE from among the Jehovah's Witnesses has EVER taken me up on this
offer. Why is that, pray tell?
--
Gordie
'A Lawyer from Genoa, a cousin of Doctor Festa of Rome persuaded that
his
Post by L Perez
cousin
Post by The Nolalu Barn Owl
was in a state of exaltation, decided to go incognito to Padre Pio.
As soon as the Father laid eyes on him he exclaimed: "What are you doing
here?
Post by The Nolalu Barn Owl
You are a Mason!" This was followed by verbal blows and
counter-blows
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by L Perez
which
Post by The Nolalu Barn Owl
all ended in the lawyer kneeling down in front of the humble friar who
had
Post by The Nolalu Barn Owl
converted him.'
Booklet - Who is Padre Pio?, page 18 - Published 1974
Tan Books and Publishers, Inc.P.O. Box 424
Rockford, Illinois 61105
Terry/AntiWT
2004-01-11 12:03:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by L Perez
I'll go with ya Gordie!
The JWs could learn a thing or two from Mass. You get to move around allot
and it only lasts an hour! ;-) The chanting is a little weird, though. And
sometimes you get a little wet.
--
Mark
Those hard pews would be much to uncomfortable to an average JW.

Gramps
Mark Gonzales
2004-01-11 12:39:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Terry/AntiWT
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by L Perez
I'll go with ya Gordie!
The JWs could learn a thing or two from Mass. You get to move around allot
and it only lasts an hour! ;-) The chanting is a little weird, though. And
sometimes you get a little wet.
--
Mark
Those hard pews would be much to uncomfortable to an average JW.
Yeah, they've become pansies. ;-) I remember growing up going to JW
Assemblies in gymnasiums with hard wooden bleachers into the early evening.
At least church pews have a back, but they're still mighty uncomfortable - a
penance thing?
--


Mark
Post by Terry/AntiWT
Gramps
Terry/AntiWT
2004-01-11 18:39:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by Terry/AntiWT
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by L Perez
I'll go with ya Gordie!
The JWs could learn a thing or two from Mass. You get to move around
allot
Post by Terry/AntiWT
Post by Mark Gonzales
and it only lasts an hour! ;-) The chanting is a little weird, though.
And
Post by Terry/AntiWT
Post by Mark Gonzales
sometimes you get a little wet.
--
Mark
Those hard pews would be much to uncomfortable to an average JW.
Yeah, they've become pansies. ;-) I remember growing up going to JW
Assemblies in gymnasiums with hard wooden bleachers into the early evening.
At least church pews have a back, but they're still mighty uncomfortable - a
penance thing?
--
Mark
I don't know Mark. Maybe a pagan tradition.

Gramps
Mark Gonzales
2004-01-11 19:07:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by Mark Gonzales
Yeah, they've become pansies. ;-) I remember growing up going to JW
Assemblies in gymnasiums with hard wooden bleachers into the early
evening.
Post by Mark Gonzales
At least church pews have a back, but they're still mighty
uncomfortable -
Post by Mark Gonzales
a
Post by Mark Gonzales
penance thing?
--
Mark
I don't know Mark. Maybe a pagan tradition.
Don't ask me Gramps,
Why do you knell, Gramps why do stand up
Why do you shake hands when the service is done

If I'm down in my local church
Some ol' joho trying to give me friction
I say leave me alone, I'm praying all night long
It's a pagan tradition
--

P.S. Is the scripted hand shaking a local bayou thing?


Mark
Post by Mark Gonzales
Gramps
Mark Gonzales
2004-01-12 02:40:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Gonzales
Don't ask me Gramps,
Why do you knell, Gramps why do stand up
Why do you shake hands when the service is done
If I'm down in my local church
Some ol' joho trying to give me friction
I say leave me alone, I'm praying all night long
It's a pagan tradition
For Carol's benefit (who doesn't know who Stevie Nicks is), I'm spoofing a
Hank Williams Jr song called "Family Tradition".
--


Mark
Terry/AntiWT
2004-01-12 19:58:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by Mark Gonzales
Yeah, they've become pansies. ;-) I remember growing up going to JW
Assemblies in gymnasiums with hard wooden bleachers into the early
evening.
Post by Mark Gonzales
At least church pews have a back, but they're still mighty
uncomfortable -
Post by Mark Gonzales
a
Post by Mark Gonzales
penance thing?
--
Mark
I don't know Mark. Maybe a pagan tradition.
Don't ask me Gramps,
Why do you knell, Gramps why do stand up
Why do you shake hands when the service is done
If I'm down in my local church
Some ol' joho trying to give me friction
I say leave me alone, I'm praying all night long
It's a pagan tradition
--
P.S. Is the scripted hand shaking a local bayou thing?
Mark
Mark, the last time I attended mass for other than a funeral or wedding was
over 30 years ago. Maybe all the standing and kneeling and sitting is to
make sure you are awake. 30 years ago there was no handshaking, but now
there is. It seems a little weird to me.

Gramps
Wes
2004-01-12 02:31:22 UTC
Permalink
I keep thinking this is a thread about John Wetton.

Wes
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by Terry/AntiWT
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by L Perez
I'll go with ya Gordie!
The JWs could learn a thing or two from Mass. You get to move around
allot
Post by Terry/AntiWT
Post by Mark Gonzales
and it only lasts an hour! ;-) The chanting is a little weird, though.
And
Post by Terry/AntiWT
Post by Mark Gonzales
sometimes you get a little wet.
--
Mark
Those hard pews would be much to uncomfortable to an average JW.
Yeah, they've become pansies. ;-) I remember growing up going to JW
Assemblies in gymnasiums with hard wooden bleachers into the early
evening.
Post by Mark Gonzales
At least church pews have a back, but they're still mighty
uncomfortable -
Post by Mark Gonzales
a
Post by Mark Gonzales
penance thing?
--
Mark
I don't know Mark. Maybe a pagan tradition.
Gramps
bobbo ;p
2004-01-09 22:15:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Anonymous-Remailer AT See DOT Comment DOT Header (Prominent Bethelite)
Firstly, the rude, obnoxious, dogmatic, idiotic JEHOVAH'S WITNESS "L PEREZ"
is *not* Sherwood Peterson (= SKP and a host of other aliases). Confirmed.
Folks, we have a new cult rabid and childish loon amongst us - L PEREZ.
well, he's our OLD cult rabid and childish loon, so kindly don't
resurrect him in rec.music.progressive by crossposting his preaching. ;)
Prominent Bethelite
2004-01-09 23:45:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by bobbo ;p
Post by Anonymous-Remailer AT See DOT Comment DOT Header (Prominent Bethelite)
Firstly, the rude, obnoxious, dogmatic, idiotic JEHOVAH'S WITNESS "L
PEREZ" is *not* Sherwood Peterson (= SKP and a host of other aliases).
Confirmed.
Folks, we have a new cult rabid and childish loon amongst us - L PEREZ.
well, he's our OLD cult rabid and childish loon,
I know that full well, bobbo. :-)

And that is why "YOU" (i.e., collective reference to the regulars of
rec.music.progressive) must now take responsibility for the sad,
brainwashed dolt "L PEREZ". He's your problem. You made the net.kook. Why
else do you think I included rec.music.progressive in the distribution
list?

It was _YOUR_ collective mistreatment of the unfortunate and deluded fool
"L PEREZ" in the following threads:

OT Gay Marriage
One Proof of God's Non-Existence
On the judeo-christian god's non-existence
A Christian's Guide to Progressive Rock
Religion is a rebellion against Indifference of the Universe

where rec.music.progressive administered the idiotic JW a damned good
beating last fall for his preaching and proselytizing that caused him to
land in "our" group, alt.religion.jehovahs-witn, which is a recovery group
for those damaged by the crazy loons "Witlesses". To get this rabid jW dog
"L PEREZ" here is the last thing we need.

I relize how cleverly the JW was flushed out by those threads.

In fact, "L PEREZ" got such a hiding that some at rmp felt sorry for him!
That has made him doubly crazed here, where he expected (poor fool) that he
was going to get reinforcement for his cult's insanity and wickedness.

bobbo, the JWs are kookier than you imagine. Check out:

http://www.freeminds.org/history/part1.htm
http://www.intrex.net/talley/WT_Home1.html

Make sure you don't have your mouth full; I won't be responsible for any
accidents. ;-)
Post by bobbo ;p
so kindly don't resurrect him in rec.music.progressive by crossposting his
preaching. ;)
Sorry, request declined..... and hint taken. ;-))

Provided he apologizes fully and quickly for his disgusting, perverted
accusations against me (you have no idea what "proof" means to a crazed jW,
the Jehovah's WITNESSES are so often false witnesses!), I will take no more
action against "L PEREZ".

Else, you irresponsible folk at rec.music.progressive will be WITNESSING
the resurrection of "L PEREZ". ;-) And don't try complaining to my ISP,
anyone, please... please..... ;-)

btw Perez and the Jehovah's Witnesses believe and teach that Christ was not
resurrected in his own body but was dissolved into gases after death and
may have been brought back in someone else's body (WTS motive: degrade
Jesus, whose teachings re charity and love are embarassing to rabid JWs who
far prefer the stoning and murder of the Old Testament). This proves that
the Watchtower is an Antichrist (1 John 2:22, 1 John 4:3, 2 John 1:7) by
their own book! LOL!

Anyway, get used to "L PEREZ" again, rec.music.progressive... and enjoy!


()""""""() ()""""() ()""""() ()""""() ()""""""()
() () () () () () () () () ()
() () () () () () () () () ()
() () () () () () () () () ()
() `""""""` `"""""` `"""""` `"""""` ()
() ()
() The Watchtower and the Jehovah's Witnesses Cult ()
() is a CUNNING CONTRIVANCE, a FRAUD, a DIRTY LIE, ()
() a WOLFISH TRICK, a SCAM, a CRUEL HOAX, a WICKED ()
() CHEAT, the embodiment of SPIRITUAL PORNOGRAPHY, ()
() a PARADISE for FILTHY PEDOPHILES, a BLASPHEMOUS ()
() INSULT, an ABOMINATION, a DISGUSTING THING, the ()
() GREAT HARLOT OF BABYLON, an ANTICHRIST, a FALSE ()
() PROPHET, a HIGHLY DECEITFUL WITNESS, a SCANDAL, ()
() a DAMNED SATANIC OUTRAGE from start to finish.. ()
() ()
`""""() So, ()""""`
() why ()
() argue ()
`"""() about ()"""`
() it? ()
() ;-) ()

And on the third day, God said:
"Let there be div(D)=Pf, div(B)=0, curl(E)=-dB/dt, curl(H)=jf+dD/dt."
And there was light."

Love
___ _ __
/ _ \_______ __ _ (_)__ ___ ___ / /_
/ ___/ __/ _ \/ ' \/ / _ \/ -_) _ \/ __/
/_/ /_/ \___/_/_/_/_/_//_/\__/_//_/\__/
___ __ __ ___ __
/ _ )___ / /_/ / ___ / (_) /____
/ _ / -_) __/ _ \/ -_) / / __/ -_)
/____/\__/\__/_//_/\__/_/_/\__/\__/

Examples of FINE SPIRITUAL FOOD AT THE APPROPRIATE TIME FROM "THE SLAVE":
"We need not here repeat the evidences that the 'seventh trump' began its
sounding in A.D. 1840, and will continue until the end of the time of
trouble" {WT Nov 1880 p1}; "masturbation is no mere innocent pastime but
rather a practice that can lead to homosexual acts" {WT May 15 1970 p315;
also WT Oct 1 1970 p604}; "If heaven were made the receptacle of the
heathen, savages, barbarians, the idiotic, simple, insane and INFANTS, it
would cease to be heaven to a considerable extent, and become a pandemonium
.. billions of ignorant, imbecile and degraded .. never formed characters
[not] fit companions for saints" {WT Oct 15 1896 p245} Fine JW Wisdom!!
----------------------------------------------------------------------

THE LIST OF AMAZING JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES' CLAIMS, BELIEFS & PREDICTIONS
Prepared by MYSELF may be found at the following websites:-
http://www.freeminds.org/history/part1.htm
http://www1.tip.nl/~t661020/wtcitaten/part1.htm
http://localsonly.wilmington.net/jmalik/TheList.zip
http://www.concordance.com/watchtower.htm

It is FULLY IN ACCORDANCE with the teachings of the WATCHTOWER Bible &
Tract Society (WTBTS) for every member of JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES to Carefully
Study the LIST mentioned above, which comprises truly fine scriptural food
from its own publications. Remember the WTBTS told you to confirm whether
what was taught by the WTBTS was in harmony with the Bible - and if not,
not to circulate it {WT Mar 1 1894 repr p1629}, to confirm WT teachings
against the Bible {WT May 1 1934 p131}, to invite critical examination of
your faith {WT Aug 15 1950 p263}, that, far from being wrong, it is your
duty to examine religion to see if it is true or false {WT Nov 15 1963
p688}, that you should actively examine your own religion {The Truth That
Leads To Eternal Life 1968 p13, a WTBTS publication}, that you should check
and examine BOTH sides of a matter {Awake! Oct 22 1973 p6}, that your
religion was in no way afraid of being exposed to scrutiny {WT Aug 1 1978
p12}, that you should to be willing to submit everything to scrutiny
{Awake! Aug 22 1984 p22/28}, that you should not have a closed mind {WT Nov
22 1984 p3-4}, that you should actively refer to the older publications {WT
Jun 15 1985 p12}, that all people are encouraged to examine other religions
and with an open mind {WT Apr 1 1991 p17} and that you are encouraged to
exhibit freedom of thought {Awake! Jun 8 1994 p21}. So, please follow this
advice of the WTBTS, and study that LIST very carefully. "You will know the
Truth and the Truth will set you free."(John 8:32). Fine advice indeed!

THE LIST IS PRODUCED IN DIRECT RESPONSE TO A RECENT REQUEST BY THE WTBTS in
{WT Dec 1 1990 p19}, where it quotes {WT Dec 15 1914 p377-8}: "If any one
knows anything better, let him take it. If any of you ever find anything
better, we hope you will tell us." Kindly, Prominent Bethelite has duly
obliged. Having read it, if you find the WTBTS has ever told falsehoods,
follow the WTBTS advice clearly given in {WT Dec 1 1991 p7} "A religion
that teaches lies cannot be true."; if you find the WTBTS has even made one
false prophecy, follow the WTBTS advice clearly given in {WT Feb 1 1992 p3}
"Beware of False Prophets!" - and cut yourself off from these Foul Cheats.
Warren Pease
2004-01-09 19:27:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by L Perez
"Prominent Bethelite" <Anonymous-Remailer who posts pornography under other
** Does the WTS now teach us that we're to call people names? Make false
accusations? Bear false witness? Judge others? When did that start? Is
that NEW-LIGHT? I simply can't keep up... oh dear!
--
Mikrobez & Warren...
L Perez has claimed to have the 100% CORRECT interpretation of scripture
from 20 years of "private" study. Not at any University or Institute of
Higher Learning you understand... but right in the comfort of his own
home. So far he has claimed HIMSELF to have the PERFECT interpretation
and understanding of ALL SCRIPTURE - so why bother discussing the meaning
with him? He's perfect like Jesus Christ. Next he'll want you all to
fall to your knees and perform some act of worship at his feet.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ><>
Mark Gonzales
2004-01-09 19:18:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Prominent Bethelite
Post by The Nolalu Barn Owl
Post by Becky
even if they have to go to a funeral?
This question has numerous answers.
ANY sinner is allowed to enter a Roman Catholic Church even a
Jehovah's Witness but they are NOT allowed to receive Holy Communion.
The same should be true of the Church of England or any of the other
heretical Christian churches.
The Watchtower Society strictly forbids a Jehovah's Witness to enter
another church of any kind. Funerals are off limits.
My mom is a JW fanatic.She's a retired Regular Pioneer who gave a talk at
a recent Circuit Assembly. She goes to Roman Catholic funerals (both my
wife's grandparents and uncle) and weddings (wife's sister and brother).
So does my father who is a Ministerial Servant. My wife, while being an
active baptized JW, stood in her Catholic sister's wedding. At my wife's
grandmother's Catholic funeral, I cracked a joke that a certain pew in the
back should be labeled the "JW Pew" as there was about 15 JWs sitting on
it.
In other words, you're full of crap. If my mom will do it, it MUST be ok!
--
Mark
No, Mark, it is not "The Nolalu Barn Owl" who is "full of crap" - he has
pretty much correctly described Watchtower policy.
Nonsense. Did you not read your own Watchtower quote below???
Post by Prominent Bethelite
While Mark may not be lying...
Why, thank you. ;-)
Post by Prominent Bethelite
(he is given to defending the old whore from time to time, though),
I may decide to correct what I think is a false statement when I see it.
IMHO, if more anti-JW's like yourself who are in-the-know would correct
these false statements (however minor or few), then your own statements
would become more credible, right? Or you can just agree with everything
said (true or not) and end up with the credibility of Carol. This is Usenet
after all so I guess it really doesn't matter here.

To my knowledge, www.jehovahs-witness.com is the most active and well known
anti-JW message board on the Internet. Here's a thread on the subject of JWs
attending weddings and funerals in churches...
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/64149/1.ashx
Post by Prominent Bethelite
Mark - do give me the name(s) of the congregations
involved, and I assure you an investigation will be held into these matters
by the Presiding Overseer(s). I am only asking this politely as I can, of
course, identify the congregations without your assistance.
Hm. I'd think you'd remember this. It's Port Allen, LA.
Post by Prominent Bethelite
This is CURRENT Watchtower dogma on the matter of attending services at
"May dedicated Christians attend church funerals of other religious
organizations?.. Some Christians may feel obligated to attend a church
funeral because of a debt of gratitude, because a close relative is
involved or due to pressures from an unbelieving mate.. such a course is
certainly fraught with dangers and problems
Why did you use "..." above where it states, "While doing so is not
forbidden by the Christian congregation"

Isn't this quote important, considering we're discussing the statement,
"The Watchtower Society strictly forbids a Jehovah's Witness to enter
another church of any kind" made by "The Nolalu Barn Owl"?

<snipped>
The ENTIRE Watchtower article is quoted in this thread...
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/64149/1.ashx
Post by Prominent Bethelite
Summary: -N-O- ATTENDANCE AT ANYONE'S FUNERAL AT ANOTHER CHURCH
I disagree with your conclusion.
Post by Prominent Bethelite
And if you attend the funeral of one who has been excommunicated from the
JW cult, the penalty may well be excommunication.
Regardless of where the funeral is held I suppose? What does this have to do
with "The Nolalu Barn Owl"'s quote that we are discussing?
Post by Prominent Bethelite
There are a dozen places
where the Watchtower warns against such attendance at a funeral.
Ok.
Post by Prominent Bethelite
As to what the Watchtower says about other churches...
Again, what does this have to do with "The Nolalu Barn Owl"'s quote that we
are discussing? There is no need to go off on tangents.

<snipped>
We all know what the WT thinks of other churches.

My conclusion upon reading that WT article is that a JW may attend a funeral
in a church provided they don't participate in the religious services. I
don't think those JWs in attendance (including my folks) were too worried
about accidentally making the sign of cross because everyone else was doing
so. ;-)
--


Mark
{@()@}
2004-01-09 21:32:34 UTC
Permalink
"Mark Gonzales" <***@comcast.net> wrote in message news:btmup7$ef9$***@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com...
+++BIG SNIP+++

What WTS exposer does have credibility in your eyes Mark? Even when we
post SCANS from your own Whore-Of-Babylon literature here for all to see
you deny everything. It's either called old light, old information or
some way explained away and swept under the Watchtower Society's carpet.
You JWs have even made excuses for incorrect medical teachings of the WTS,
none of them researched, that even cost people their lives. So tell
me... what would it take to be credible and open your eyes to the
Watchtower scam?

Carol, Mike, & Ida.......
Mark Gonzales
2004-01-09 22:10:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by {@()@}
+++BIG SNIP+++
What WTS exposer does have credibility in your eyes Mark?
Certainly not you Carol, one who's been exposed as a liar numerous times. I
still have your many contradictory quotes stored away, though I'd rather not
revisit that ugliness. I'm sure you'll agree. ;-)
Post by {@()@}
Even when we...
There is no "we". I find that most anti-JWs are sincere, honest, and
trustworthy - especially on message boards. You and maybe one or two others
have never been part of this group, however.
Post by {@()@}
post SCANS from your own Whore-Of-Babylon literature here for all to see
you deny everything. It's either called old light, old information or
some way explained away and swept under the Watchtower Society's carpet.
You JWs...
And once again, you are addressing me incorrectly and you know this. Just
because I correct a false statement about JWs does not make me a JW. You've
never been able to comprehend this.
Post by {@()@}
have even made excuses for incorrect medical teachings of the WTS,
none of them researched, that even cost people their lives. So tell
me... what would it take to be credible and open your eyes to the
Watchtower scam?
Whether or not the Watchtower is a scam is irrelevant to me as the
Watchtower has very little impact on my life, except when occasionally
dealing with JW family.

YOU even mentioning the word "credibility" is hilarious! ;-)
--


Mark
Post by {@()@}
Carol, Mike, & Ida.......
Chilli Willy
2004-01-09 22:50:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by {@()@}
What WTS exposer does have credibility in your eyes Mark?
Certainly not you Carol, one who's been exposed as a liar numerous
times.

## Which lies are these Mark? The C&P from your own magazines?

I
Post by Mark Gonzales
still have your many contradictory quotes stored away, though I'd rather not
revisit that ugliness. I'm sure you'll agree. ;-)
## Post them. Why should I care? I've been accused of all kinds of
things here. Just lets not go through the BS where I said I was a BAPTIZED
JW when I never made THAT claim ok? And I'm sure you checked them all to
make sure none were forgeries. Forgeries are all I seem to be reading
about here nowadays. ;-)
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by {@()@}
Even when we...
There is no "we". I find that most anti-JWs are sincere, honest, and
trustworthy - especially on message boards. You and maybe one or two others
have never been part of this group, however.
## And the proof is......?
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by {@()@}
post SCANS from your own Whore-Of-Babylon literature here for all to see
you deny everything. It's either called old light, old information or
some way explained away and swept under the Watchtower Society's carpet.
You JWs...
And once again, you are addressing me incorrectly and you know this. Just
because I correct a false statement about JWs does not make me a JW. You've
never been able to comprehend this.
## Just because you were not yet baptized into their cult? If you're not
one (in spirit and belief) of them why do you fight so hard to defend this
death causing, family and marriage destroying cult?
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by {@()@}
have even made excuses for incorrect medical teachings of the WTS,
none of them researched, that even cost people their lives. So tell
me... what would it take to be credible and open your eyes to the
Watchtower scam?
Whether or not the Watchtower is a scam is irrelevant to me as the
Watchtower has very little impact on my life, except when occasionally
dealing with JW family.
YOU even mentioning the word "credibility" is hilarious! ;-
## I can say the same for you and all other WTS apologists. ;-)
--
Carol.....
"Christians, it is needless to say, utterly detest each other. They
slander each
other constantly with the vilest forms of abuse and cannot come to any
sort of
agreement in their teachings. Each sect brands its own, fills the head of
its own
with deceitful nonsense, and makes perfect little pigs of those it wins
over to its
side."
- Celsus (2nd century C.E.)
~~~~~*~~~~~ ~~~~~*~~~~~ ~~~~~*~~~~~ ~~~~~*~~~~~ ~~~~~*
Mark Gonzales
2004-01-09 23:40:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by {@()@}
What WTS exposer does have credibility in your eyes Mark?
Certainly not you Carol, one who's been exposed as a liar numerous
times.
## Which lies are these Mark?
Oh man, do you REALLY want to go there?!?! I mean, really? AGAIN???
Post by Mark Gonzales
The C&P from your own magazines?
My "own magazines" are currently Car and Driver and Motor Trend (need to
renew my Road & Track subscription). Each may have biases and preferences
but I wouldn't say they lie - maybe exaggerate a little.
Post by Mark Gonzales
I
Post by Mark Gonzales
still have your many contradictory quotes stored away, though I'd rather
not
Post by Mark Gonzales
revisit that ugliness. I'm sure you'll agree. ;-)
## Post them.
If you insist. Would you like them all in one large post or would you prefer
I break it into smaller posts? Perhaps a daily, "Carol Lie of the Day"?
Post by Mark Gonzales
Why should I care?
This is where you and I differ, I suppose. I take my credibility seriously,
even on Usenet.
Post by Mark Gonzales
I've been accused of all kinds of things here.
Hey, if the shoe fits... ;-)
Post by Mark Gonzales
Just lets not go through the BS where I said I was a BAPTIZED
JW when I never made THAT claim ok?
Sure thing, bit I don't believe I have anything like that is in my quotes
anyway.
Post by Mark Gonzales
And I'm sure you checked them all to
make sure none were forgeries.
Nope, didn't have to. As I posted each one in the past, you never denied
making the statements. In fact, you tried to justify them only to dig your
hole deeper and deeper.

If you're going to claim these statements were forgeries (not that you have,
yet), then I won't bother. Any regular who's been here in a.r.j.-w. for a
while has seen us go through this over and over. Besides, I don't recall you
ever accusing anyone of forging your post.
Post by Mark Gonzales
Forgeries are all I seem to be reading
about here nowadays. ;-)
Then perhaps you're not really Carol? ;-)
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by {@()@}
Even when we...
There is no "we". I find that most anti-JWs are sincere, honest, and
trustworthy - especially on message boards. You and maybe one or two
others
Post by Mark Gonzales
have never been part of this group, however.
## And the proof is......?
Your own statements. Do I need more proof than that? Remember when I told
you that Google was not your friend?
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by {@()@}
post SCANS from your own Whore-Of-Babylon literature here for all to
see
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by {@()@}
you deny everything. It's either called old light, old information or
some way explained away and swept under the Watchtower Society's
carpet.
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by {@()@}
You JWs...
And once again, you are addressing me incorrectly and you know this.
Just
Post by Mark Gonzales
because I correct a false statement about JWs does not make me a JW.
You've
Post by Mark Gonzales
never been able to comprehend this.
## Just because you were not yet baptized into their cult?
Baptism is a technicality. I'm an agnostic who hasn't attended a service in
a Kingdom Hall in many years. Don't plan to in the future, either.
Post by Mark Gonzales
If you're not
one (in spirit and belief) of them why do you fight so hard to defend this
death causing, family and marriage destroying cult?
I simply corrected a false statement. Is that a problem with you and if so,
why?

I've noticed that anti-JW's are much quicker to correct miss-information on
message boards. I figure they don't want their opinions and experiences to
be diluted with nonsense. But this is Usenet, after all.
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by {@()@}
have even made excuses for incorrect medical teachings of the WTS,
none of them researched, that even cost people their lives. So tell
me... what would it take to be credible and open your eyes to the
Watchtower scam?
Whether or not the Watchtower is a scam is irrelevant to me as the
Watchtower has very little impact on my life, except when occasionally
dealing with JW family.
YOU even mentioning the word "credibility" is hilarious! ;-
## I can say the same for you and all other WTS apologists. ;-)
Eh, whatever.
--


Mark
Post by Mark Gonzales
--
Carol.....
"Christians, it is needless to say, utterly detest each other. They
slander each
other constantly with the vilest forms of abuse and cannot come to any
sort of
agreement in their teachings. Each sect brands its own, fills the head of
its own
with deceitful nonsense, and makes perfect little pigs of those it wins
over to its
side."
- Celsus (2nd century C.E.)
~~~~~*~~~~~ ~~~~~*~~~~~ ~~~~~*~~~~~ ~~~~~*~~~~~ ~~~~~*
{@()@} and (@()@)
2004-01-10 00:56:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by Chilli Willy
## Which lies are these Mark?
Oh man, do you REALLY want to go there?!?! I mean, really? AGAIN???
$$ Sure! Why not? It may be fun.
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by Chilli Willy
## Post them.
If you insist. Would you like them all in one large post or would you prefer
I break it into smaller posts? Perhaps a daily, "Carol Lie of the Day"?
$$ Any way you want. This way the pro-WTS folks can snap them up and
repost them forever. ;-)
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by Chilli Willy
Why should I care?
This is where you and I differ, I suppose. I take my credibility seriously,
even on Usenet.
$$ I couldn't care less because people are going to believe what they
choose to believe no matter what..... I think we both know that. You do
remember the issue about blue-jeans I believe. When a JW posted that they
also remembered this blue-jean issue no one KEPT THAT POST and reposted it
endlessly I noticed - and YOU talk about credibility? So of course doing
these tricks anyone can be made to look like a liar - so post them all
here. :-)
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by Chilli Willy
I've been accused of all kinds of things here.
Hey, if the shoe fits... ;-)
$$ That's the problem the shoe doesn't fit. ;-)
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by Chilli Willy
Just lets not go through the BS where I said I was a BAPTIZED
JW when I never made THAT claim ok?
Sure thing, bit I don't believe I have anything like that is in my quotes
anyway.
$$ Well some one accused me of that quote.
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by Chilli Willy
And I'm sure you checked them all to
make sure none were forgeries.
Nope, didn't have to. As I posted each one in the past, you never denied
making the statements. In fact, you tried to justify them only to dig your
hole deeper and deeper.
$$ I have a shovel ready.... go for it! :-)))
Post by Mark Gonzales
If you're going to claim these statements were forgeries (not that you have,
yet), then I won't bother.
$$ They well may be forgeries - how would I know? It seems we had several
people here in the past cranking out forgeries. At least that's what the
devout JWs like Jabriol and Sherwood etc. claimed.

Any regular who's been here in a.r.j.-w. for a
Post by Mark Gonzales
while has seen us go through this over and over. Besides, I don't recall you
ever accusing anyone of forging your post.
$$ I may not have. Should I? The JWs do it? ;-)
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by Chilli Willy
Forgeries are all I seem to be reading
about here nowadays. ;-)
Then perhaps you're not really Carol? ;-)
$$ That's possible too. ;o)
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by Chilli Willy
## And the proof is......?
Your own statements. Do I need more proof than that? Remember when I told
you that Google was not your friend?
$$ No. When did you tell me that?
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by Chilli Willy
## Just because you were not yet baptized into their cult?
Baptism is a technicality. I'm an agnostic who hasn't attended a service in
a Kingdom Hall in many years. Don't plan to in the future, either.
$$ Then why defend such an evil business/org?
Post by Mark Gonzales
I simply corrected a false statement. Is that a problem with you and if so,
why?
$$ Because you try and correct statements that are TRUE. If you didn't
have the SAME experience as the other person you consider then a liar.
Or if they didn't SEE something the way you SAW it you call them a liar.
The blue-jean issue comes to mind again. I wish I had saved all those
posts.
Post by Mark Gonzales
I've noticed that anti-JW's are much quicker to correct miss-information on
message boards. I figure they don't want their opinions and experiences to
be diluted with nonsense. But this is Usenet, after all.
$$ I don't post on message boards so haven't a clue what goes on there.
Direct me to a few and I'll gladly check them out.
--
Him & Me........
The Watchtower, January 15, 1983, p. 22
"Avoid Independent Thinking . How is such
independent thinking manifested? A common way
is by questioning the counsel that is provided by
God's visible organization."
NOTE: Yet the Jehovah's Witnesses deny this is true and
that they are encouraged to think for themselves.
=======================================
Mark Gonzales
2004-01-10 03:12:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by {@()@} and (@()@)
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by Chilli Willy
## Which lies are these Mark?
Oh man, do you REALLY want to go there?!?! I mean, really? AGAIN???
$$ Sure! Why not? It may be fun.
Was it that much fun the last time? You are a weird one. ;-)
Post by {@()@} and (@()@)
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by Chilli Willy
## Post them.
If you insist. Would you like them all in one large post or would you
prefer
Post by Mark Gonzales
I break it into smaller posts? Perhaps a daily, "Carol Lie of the Day"?
$$ Any way you want. This way the pro-WTS folks can snap them up and
repost them forever. ;-)
I seem to be the only one who pulls up your old posts to use against you. I
don't believe anyone else (pro or anti) really cares enough about what you
say to even bother. To be honest, I don't feel like bothering with it again.
Besides, it's kind of childish when you think about it.
Post by {@()@} and (@()@)
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by Chilli Willy
Why should I care?
This is where you and I differ, I suppose. I take my credibility
seriously,
Post by Mark Gonzales
even on Usenet.
$$ I couldn't care less because people are going to believe what they
choose to believe no matter what.....
Well, if you don't care, and since most everyone has already seen it, why
should I bother with it again?
Post by {@()@} and (@()@)
I think we both know that. You do
remember the issue about blue-jeans I believe. When a JW posted that they
also remembered this blue-jean issue no one KEPT THAT POST and reposted it
endlessly I noticed...
Eh, what??? <scratching head>
Post by {@()@} and (@()@)
- and YOU talk about credibility?
Sure, why not? Have I said anything to lose credibility?
Post by {@()@} and (@()@)
So of course doing
these tricks anyone can be made to look like a liar - so post them all
here. :-)
Tricks? Quoting you is not a trick, neither is comparing your quotes to show
gross inconsistencies. There is only one trickster on a.r.j.-w. that I know
of and it isn't me (nor you).
Post by {@()@} and (@()@)
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by Chilli Willy
I've been accused of all kinds of things here.
Hey, if the shoe fits... ;-)
$$ That's the problem the shoe doesn't fit. ;-)
Hmmm.
Post by {@()@} and (@()@)
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by Chilli Willy
Just lets not go through the BS where I said I was a BAPTIZED
JW when I never made THAT claim ok?
Sure thing, bit I don't believe I have anything like that is in my
quotes
Post by Mark Gonzales
anyway.
$$ Well some one accused me of that quote.
Ok.
Post by {@()@} and (@()@)
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by Chilli Willy
And I'm sure you checked them all to
make sure none were forgeries.
Nope, didn't have to. As I posted each one in the past, you never denied
making the statements. In fact, you tried to justify them only to dig
your
Post by Mark Gonzales
hole deeper and deeper.
$$ I have a shovel ready.... go for it! :-)))
<sigh>
Post by {@()@} and (@()@)
Post by Mark Gonzales
If you're going to claim these statements were forgeries (not that you
have,
Post by Mark Gonzales
yet), then I won't bother.
$$ They well may be forgeries - how would I know?
You wouldn't know if you wrote something or not?
Post by {@()@} and (@()@)
It seems we had several
people here in the past cranking out forgeries. At least that's what the
devout JWs like Jabriol and Sherwood etc. claimed.
Any regular who's been here in a.r.j.-w. for a
Post by Mark Gonzales
while has seen us go through this over and over. Besides, I don't recall
you
Post by Mark Gonzales
ever accusing anyone of forging your post.
$$ I may not have. Should I?
Apparently not.
Post by {@()@} and (@()@)
The JWs do it? ;-)
?
Post by {@()@} and (@()@)
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by Chilli Willy
Forgeries are all I seem to be reading
about here nowadays. ;-)
Then perhaps you're not really Carol? ;-)
$$ That's possible too. ;o)
Ok, Sherwood. ;-)
Post by {@()@} and (@()@)
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by Chilli Willy
## And the proof is......?
Your own statements. Do I need more proof than that? Remember when I
told
Post by Mark Gonzales
you that Google was not your friend?
$$ No. When did you tell me that?
On July 12, 2003. Actually I said, "Usenet search engines are not your
friend".
Post by {@()@} and (@()@)
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by Chilli Willy
## Just because you were not yet baptized into their cult?
Baptism is a technicality. I'm an agnostic who hasn't attended a service
in
Post by Mark Gonzales
a Kingdom Hall in many years. Don't plan to in the future, either.
$$ Then why defend such an evil business/org?
Since when is correcting a false statement a defense? Prove me wrong and
we'll be done with it.
Post by {@()@} and (@()@)
Post by Mark Gonzales
I simply corrected a false statement. Is that a problem with you and if
so,
Post by Mark Gonzales
why?
$$ Because you try and correct statements that are TRUE.
I think the proof is overwhelming that the statement made about JWs being
forbidden to enter a church is certainly NOT true. BTW, I've called a couple
of JWs to confirm this.
Post by {@()@} and (@()@)
If you didn't
have the SAME experience as the other person you consider then a liar.
Not true. There are many anti-JWs who did not have the same experience as
myself and I don't call them liars.
Post by {@()@} and (@()@)
Or if they didn't SEE something the way you SAW it you call them a liar.
The blue-jean issue comes to mind again. I wish I had saved all those
posts.
No matter, just use http://www.google.com/advanced_group_search?hl=en and
look them up. ;-)
Post by {@()@} and (@()@)
Post by Mark Gonzales
I've noticed that anti-JW's are much quicker to correct miss-information
on
Post by Mark Gonzales
message boards. I figure they don't want their opinions and experiences
to
Post by Mark Gonzales
be diluted with nonsense. But this is Usenet, after all.
$$ I don't post on message boards so haven't a clue what goes on there.
Direct me to a few and I'll gladly check them out.
Sure. The main one that I know of is...
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/default.ashx

Another is...
http://www.channelc.org/cgi-bin/eboard30/index.cgi
--


Mark
Post by {@()@} and (@()@)
--
Him & Me........
The Watchtower, January 15, 1983, p. 22
"Avoid Independent Thinking . How is such
independent thinking manifested? A common way
is by questioning the counsel that is provided by
God's visible organization."
NOTE: Yet the Jehovah's Witnesses deny this is true and
that they are encouraged to think for themselves.
=======================================
=^..^=
2004-01-10 04:05:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by {@()@} and (@()@)
$$ Sure! Why not? It may be fun.
Was it that much fun the last time? You are a weird one. ;-)
## Was it fun for you? ;-)
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by {@()@} and (@()@)
$$ Any way you want. This way the pro-WTS folks can snap them up and
repost them forever. ;-)
I seem to be the only one who pulls up your old posts to use against
you.

## You are? I haven't noticed.

I
Post by Mark Gonzales
don't believe anyone else (pro or anti) really cares enough about what you
say to even bother.
## That's possible. :-)

To be honest, I don't feel like bothering with it again.
Post by Mark Gonzales
Besides, it's kind of childish when you think about it.
Well, if you don't care, and since most everyone has already seen it, why
should I bother with it again?
## YOU brought it up, not me. Besides as the WTS would say, " It's
old-light and old-information." And who knows how many are forgeries.
--
Me.........
The Watchtower and Jehovah's Witnesses do not
believe in charity. But what does the bible say?
The bible says give charity according to one's means
(Deut. 15:11)
*************************************************************
Mark Gonzales
2004-01-10 04:42:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by =^..^=
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by {@()@} and (@()@)
$$ Sure! Why not? It may be fun.
Was it that much fun the last time? You are a weird one. ;-)
## Was it fun for you? ;-)
For a little while. ;-)
Post by =^..^=
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by {@()@} and (@()@)
$$ Any way you want. This way the pro-WTS folks can snap them up and
repost them forever. ;-)
I seem to be the only one who pulls up your old posts to use against
you.
## You are? I haven't noticed.
This doesn't surprise me.
Post by =^..^=
I
Post by Mark Gonzales
don't believe anyone else (pro or anti) really cares enough about what
you
Post by Mark Gonzales
say to even bother.
## That's possible. :-)
To be honest, I don't feel like bothering with it again.
Post by Mark Gonzales
Besides, it's kind of childish when you think about it.
Well, if you don't care, and since most everyone has already seen it,
why
Post by Mark Gonzales
should I bother with it again?
## YOU brought it up, not me.
I know, I know.
Post by =^..^=
Besides as the WTS would say, " It's
old-light and old-information." And who knows how many are forgeries.
Only you could tell us that, that is if you are who you say you are. I'm
already tired of Usenet and I've only been back a few hours. ;-)
--


Mark
Post by =^..^=
--
Me.........
The Watchtower and Jehovah's Witnesses do not
believe in charity. But what does the bible say?
The bible says give charity according to one's means
(Deut. 15:11)
*************************************************************
=^..^=
2004-01-10 08:47:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Gonzales
For a little while. ;-)
## Yeah, those were the days....... ;-)
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by =^..^=
## You are? I haven't noticed.
This doesn't surprise me.
## Doesn't surprise me either. Should it?
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by =^..^=
## YOU brought it up, not me.
I know, I know.
## Why bother?
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by =^..^=
Besides as the WTS would say, " It's
old-light and old-information." And who knows how many are forgeries.
Only you could tell us that, that is if you are who you say you are. I'm
already tired of Usenet and I've only been back a few hours. ;-)
## Then take a vacation. There are other NG you can visit - thousands of
them. ;-)
--
Mikrobez...
L Perez has claimed to have the 100% CORRECT interpretation of scripture
from 20 years of "private" study. Not at any University or Institute of
Higher Learning you understand... but right in the comfort of his own
home. So far he has claimed HIMSELF to have the PERFECT interpretation
and understanding of ALL SCRIPTURE - so why bother discussing the meaning
with him? He's perfect like Jesus Christ. Next he'll want you all to
fall to your knees and perform some act of worship at his feet.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ><>
L Perez
2004-01-10 04:10:18 UTC
Permalink
Please Mark, for the benefit of those who may be deceived by carol and her
1,000s of usenet identities, post the evidence for all to see.
Mark Gonzales
2004-01-10 05:16:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by L Perez
Please Mark, for the benefit of those who may be deceived by carol and her
1,000s of usenet identities, post the evidence for all to see.
If anyone is deceived by Carol, then they deserve to be deceived. I really
would blame the victim in this case. ;-)

I dunno. I've had a work in progress of Carol quotes (mainly contradictions
and such) for some time now but I'm not feeling motivated enough to finish
it. It's kind of a jerkoff thing to do anyway, right? I'm just not feeling
that spiteful these days.

We'll see...
--


Mark
L Perez
2004-01-10 05:33:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by L Perez
Please Mark, for the benefit of those who may be deceived by carol and her
1,000s of usenet identities, post the evidence for all to see.
If anyone is deceived by Carol, then they deserve to be deceived. I really
would blame the victim in this case. ;-)
I dunno. I've had a work in progress of Carol quotes (mainly
contradictions
Post by Mark Gonzales
and such) for some time now but I'm not feeling motivated enough to finish
it. It's kind of a jerkoff thing to do anyway, right? I'm just not feeling
that spiteful these days.
actually you are most correct... she's simply not worth the time
Mark Gonzales
2004-01-10 11:07:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by L Perez
Please Mark, for the benefit of those who may be deceived by carol and
her
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by L Perez
1,000s of usenet identities, post the evidence for all to see.
If anyone is deceived by Carol, then they deserve to be deceived. I really
would blame the victim in this case. ;-)
I dunno. I've had a work in progress of Carol quotes (mainly
contradictions
Post by Mark Gonzales
and such) for some time now but I'm not feeling motivated enough to finish
it. It's kind of a jerkoff thing to do anyway, right? I'm just not feeling
that spiteful these days.
actually you are most correct... she's simply not worth the time
Well, I started it on another post but I'd like to stop it there.
--


Mark
=^..^=
2004-01-10 08:49:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Gonzales
I dunno. I've had a work in progress of Carol quotes (mainly
contradictions
Post by Mark Gonzales
and such) for some time now but I'm not feeling motivated enough to finish
it. It's kind of a jerkoff thing to do anyway, right? I'm just not feeling
that spiteful these days.
We'll see...
--
Mark
=^..^=
2004-01-10 08:48:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by L Perez
Please Mark, for the benefit of those who may be deceived by carol and her
1,000s of usenet identities, post the evidence for all to see.
======================
No one is deceived. Why should they be? Everything posted here can
verified if some one cares to take the time to go through 100 years of old
WTS literature. ;-)
--
Mikrobez...
L Perez has claimed to have the 100% CORRECT interpretation of scripture
from 20 years of "private" study. Not at any University or Institute of
Higher Learning you understand... but right in the comfort of his own
home. So far he has claimed HIMSELF to have the PERFECT interpretation
and understanding of ALL SCRIPTURE - so why bother discussing the meaning
with him? He's perfect like Jesus Christ. Next he'll want you all to
fall to your knees and perform some act of worship at his feet.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ><>
Mark Gonzales
2004-01-11 05:32:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by {@()@}
Post by L Perez
Please Mark, for the benefit of those who may be deceived by carol and
her
Post by L Perez
1,000s of usenet identities, post the evidence for all to see.
======================
No one is deceived. Why should they be? Everything posted here can
verified if some one cares to take the time to go through 100 years of old
WTS literature. ;-)
Or go through 10,000 of your old posts. ;-)
--


Mark
Post by {@()@}
--
Mikrobez...
L Perez has claimed to have the 100% CORRECT interpretation of scripture
from 20 years of "private" study. Not at any University or Institute of
Higher Learning you understand... but right in the comfort of his own
home. So far he has claimed HIMSELF to have the PERFECT interpretation
and understanding of ALL SCRIPTURE - so why bother discussing the meaning
with him? He's perfect like Jesus Christ. Next he'll want you all to
fall to your knees and perform some act of worship at his feet.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ><>
Letz ExPozem
2004-01-11 07:27:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Gonzales
Or go through 10,000 of your old posts. ;-)
===============
Oh, but that's all OLD LIGHT as the Watchtower society and JWs call it and
of no benefit to them. ;-) They must have NEW LIGHT, always NEW LIGHT.
Now you know that.
--
Momma Mia....
Some fine artwork from the Watchtower Society
"NOTE: Not recommended for children."
http://www.intrex.net/talley/WT_Home1.html
http://www.jwfiles.com/child.htm
http://www.jwfiles.com/art/Babylon1963p577.htm
http://www.jwfiles.com/outline.htm <-- excellent site - contains WTS rag
scans.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~><>
L Perez
2004-01-10 04:06:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by Prominent Bethelite
Post by The Nolalu Barn Owl
Post by Becky
even if they have to go to a funeral?
This question has numerous answers.
ANY sinner is allowed to enter a Roman Catholic Church even a
Jehovah's Witness but they are NOT allowed to receive Holy Communion.
The same should be true of the Church of England or any of the other
heretical Christian churches.
The Watchtower Society strictly forbids a Jehovah's Witness to enter
another church of any kind. Funerals are off limits.
My mom is a JW fanatic.She's a retired Regular Pioneer who gave a talk at
a recent Circuit Assembly. She goes to Roman Catholic funerals (both my
wife's grandparents and uncle) and weddings (wife's sister and brother).
So does my father who is a Ministerial Servant. My wife, while being an
active baptized JW, stood in her Catholic sister's wedding. At my wife's
grandmother's Catholic funeral, I cracked a joke that a certain pew in
the
Post by Prominent Bethelite
back should be labeled the "JW Pew" as there was about 15 JWs sitting on
it.
In other words, you're full of crap. If my mom will do it, it MUST be ok!
--
Mark
No, Mark, it is not "The Nolalu Barn Owl" who is "full of crap" - he has
pretty much correctly described Watchtower policy.
Nonsense. Did you not read your own Watchtower quote below???
Post by Prominent Bethelite
While Mark may not be lying...
Why, thank you. ;-)
Post by Prominent Bethelite
(he is given to defending the old whore from time to time, though),
I may decide to correct what I think is a false statement when I see it.
IMHO, if more anti-JW's like yourself who are in-the-know would correct
these false statements (however minor or few), then your own statements
would become more credible, right? Or you can just agree with everything
said (true or not) and end up with the credibility of Carol.
LOL!!! priceless... and so true! that was too funny Mark! thanx for
injecting your concrete reality of the situation.
--
BEWARE! there are people on this newsgroup who are only here to slander and
lie about Jehovah's Witnesses. They do not offer any alternative
organization... as a matter of fact, some are admitted atheists (Matthew
12:30; John 8:44-47) I have all of their posts filtered out because they can
not hold an intelligent conversation and often resort to lies. They claim to
be quoting from Watch Tower literature but these are *NOT* exact quotes,
they change words and quote things out of context. I don't respond to
spurious fabrications. Hence if you see that I am not answering someone, it
is because their previous attempts at deception have earned them a place in
the 'block sender' file. They exist here only to destroy (1 Corinthians
10:6-11) They speak not as Christians (Ephesians 4:31-32) I do not need to
name them for by their fruits you will recognize them (Matthew 7:16-20) One
has to wonder, why was a newsgroup set up to attack this *one* organization?
Matthew 5:10-12
=^..^=
2004-01-10 08:53:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by L Perez
LOL!!! priceless... and so true! that was too funny Mark! thanx for
injecting your concrete reality of the situation.
===============
Yes, it was priceless and another exposure of the techniques used by the
WTS. :-) They cover all bases don't they? The Blue-jean thread taught
us that. But hey, that also applies to facial hair, long hair on men and
tattoos.
Thanks Perez,... once again you proved my point.
--
Mikrobez...
L Perez has claimed to have the 100% CORRECT interpretation of scripture
from 20 years of "private" study. Not at any University or Institute of
Higher Learning you understand... but right in the comfort of his own
home. So far he has claimed HIMSELF to have the PERFECT interpretation
and understanding of ALL SCRIPTURE - so why bother discussing the meaning
with him? He's perfect like Jesus Christ. Next he'll want you all to
fall to your knees and perform some act of worship at his feet.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ><>
Prominent Bethelite
2004-01-09 23:22:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Nolalu Barn Owl
Post by Becky
even if they have to go to a funeral?
This question has numerous answers.
ANY sinner is allowed to enter a Roman Catholic Church even a
Jehovah's Witness but they are NOT allowed to receive Holy Communion.
The same should be true of the Church of England or any of the other
heretical Christian churches.
The Watchtower Society strictly forbids a Jehovah's Witness to enter
another church of any kind. Funerals are off limits.
My mom is a JW fanatic.She's a retired Regular Pioneer who gave a talk at
a recent Circuit Assembly. She goes to Roman Catholic funerals (both my
wife's grandparents and uncle) and weddings (wife's sister and brother).
So does my father who is a Ministerial Servant. My wife, while being an
active baptized JW, stood in her Catholic sister's wedding. At my wife's
grandmother's Catholic funeral, I cracked a joke that a certain pew in the
back should be labeled the "JW Pew" as there was about 15 JWs sitting on
it.
In other words, you're full of crap. If my mom will do it, it MUST be ok!
--
Mark
No, Mark, it is not "The Nolalu Barn Owl" who is "full of crap" - he has
pretty much correctly described Watchtower policy.

While Mark may not be lying (he is given to defending the old whore from
time to time, though), Mark - do give me the name(s) of the congregations
involved, and I assure you an investigation will be held into these matters
by the Presiding Overseer(s). I am only asking this politely as I can, of
course, identify the congregations without your assistance.


This is CURRENT Watchtower dogma on the matter of attending services at
other churches:

"May dedicated Christians attend church funerals of other religious
organizations?.. Some Christians may feel obligated to attend a church
funeral because of a debt of gratitude, because a close relative is
involved or due to pressures from an unbelieving mate.. such a course is
certainly fraught with dangers and problems .. a church funeral is not held
primarily to afford friends an opportunity to console the bereaved family
. [it] is really a religious service. It therefore is likely to involve a
sermon advocating such unscriptural ideas as the immortality of the soul
and that all good people go to heaven. It may also involve unscriptural
practices such as making the sign of the cross and most likely the joining
in united prayer with a priest or minister of another religion. Of course,
a Christian could not take part in such, in view of the command at
Revelation 18:4.. There are, of course, spiritual hazards in going to any
place of false worship.
. the Christian wife who has an unbelieving husband .. She would do well
to pick a time when he was relaxed and in a good frame of mind .. point out
that if she attended and did not take part in the ritual it might be very
embarrassing to others, and especially to her husband.. Thus also the
danger of performing an act of apostasy and displeasing Jehovah God can be
avoided."
- The Watchtower, March 15 1970 issue, pp191-2

Summary: -N-O- ATTENDANCE AT ANYONE'S FUNERAL AT ANOTHER CHURCH



And if you attend the funeral of one who has been excommunicated from the
JW cult, the penalty may well be excommunication. There are a dozen places
where the Watchtower warns against such attendance at a funeral.


As to what the Watchtower says about other churches, every filthy epithet
you can imagine short of "four-letter words" have been used by the JWs...
Literally, a thousand examples. Here is a mild one from the 1993
"Jehovah's Witnesses, Proclaimers of God's Kingdom" book, which quotes
early Watchtower wording absolutely approvingly:

"this infamous harlot was not merely the Catholic Church. Thus, while The
Watchtower of November 1879 identified Babylon the Great with the 'Papacy
as a SYSTEM,' the article added: 'We must go further and implicate, (not
the individual members, but the church systems) other churches united to
the Empire of earth. Every church claiming to be a chaste virgin espoused
to Christ, but in reality united to and supported by the world (beast) we
must condemn as being in scripture language a harlot."




So, Mark Gonzales, your birth mother's spiritual mother teaches that your
birth mother attends the premises of HARLOTS. What does that make her?
;-) And as for you:
"Tis a wise child who knows his own father"
;-)



()""""""() ()""""() ()""""() ()""""() ()""""""()
() () () () () () () () () ()
() () () () () () () () () ()
() () () () () () () () () ()
() `""""""` `"""""` `"""""` `"""""` ()
() ()
() The Watchtower and the Jehovah's Witnesses Cult ()
() is a CUNNING CONTRIVANCE, a FRAUD, a DIRTY LIE, ()
() a WOLFISH TRICK, a SCAM, a CRUEL HOAX, a WICKED ()
() CHEAT, the embodiment of SPIRITUAL PORNOGRAPHY, ()
() a PARADISE for FILTHY PEDOPHILES, a BLASPHEMOUS ()
() INSULT, an ABOMINATION, a DISGUSTING THING, the ()
() GREAT HARLOT OF BABYLON, an ANTICHRIST, a FALSE ()
() PROPHET, a HIGHLY DECEITFUL WITNESS, a SCANDAL, ()
() a DAMNED SATANIC OUTRAGE from start to finish.. ()
() ()
`""""() So, ()""""`
() why ()
() argue ()
`"""() about ()"""`
() it? ()
() ;-) ()

And on the third day, God said:
"Let there be div(D)=Pf, div(B)=0, curl(E)=-dB/dt, curl(H)=jf+dD/dt."
And there was light."

Love
___ _ __
/ _ \_______ __ _ (_)__ ___ ___ / /_
/ ___/ __/ _ \/ ' \/ / _ \/ -_) _ \/ __/
/_/ /_/ \___/_/_/_/_/_//_/\__/_//_/\__/
___ __ __ ___ __
/ _ )___ / /_/ / ___ / (_) /____
/ _ / -_) __/ _ \/ -_) / / __/ -_)
/____/\__/\__/_//_/\__/_/_/\__/\__/

Examples of FINE SPIRITUAL FOOD AT THE APPROPRIATE TIME FROM "THE SLAVE":
"We need not here repeat the evidences that the 'seventh trump' began its
sounding in A.D. 1840, and will continue until the end of the time of
trouble" {WT Nov 1880 p1}; "masturbation is no mere innocent pastime but
rather a practice that can lead to homosexual acts" {WT May 15 1970 p315;
also WT Oct 1 1970 p604}; "If heaven were made the receptacle of the
heathen, savages, barbarians, the idiotic, simple, insane and INFANTS, it
would cease to be heaven to a considerable extent, and become a pandemonium
.. billions of ignorant, imbecile and degraded .. never formed characters
[not] fit companions for saints" {WT Oct 15 1896 p245} Fine JW Wisdom!!
----------------------------------------------------------------------

THE LIST OF AMAZING JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES' CLAIMS, BELIEFS & PREDICTIONS
Prepared by MYSELF may be found at the following websites:-
http://www.freeminds.org/history/part1.htm
http://www1.tip.nl/~t661020/wtcitaten/part1.htm
http://localsonly.wilmington.net/jmalik/TheList.zip
http://www.concordance.com/watchtower.htm

It is FULLY IN ACCORDANCE with the teachings of the WATCHTOWER Bible &
Tract Society (WTBTS) for every member of JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES to Carefully
Study the LIST mentioned above, which comprises truly fine scriptural food
from its own publications. Remember the WTBTS told you to confirm whether
what was taught by the WTBTS was in harmony with the Bible - and if not,
not to circulate it {WT Mar 1 1894 repr p1629}, to confirm WT teachings
against the Bible {WT May 1 1934 p131}, to invite critical examination of
your faith {WT Aug 15 1950 p263}, that, far from being wrong, it is your
duty to examine religion to see if it is true or false {WT Nov 15 1963
p688}, that you should actively examine your own religion {The Truth That
Leads To Eternal Life 1968 p13, a WTBTS publication}, that you should check
and examine BOTH sides of a matter {Awake! Oct 22 1973 p6}, that your
religion was in no way afraid of being exposed to scrutiny {WT Aug 1 1978
p12}, that you should to be willing to submit everything to scrutiny
{Awake! Aug 22 1984 p22/28}, that you should not have a closed mind {WT Nov
22 1984 p3-4}, that you should actively refer to the older publications {WT
Jun 15 1985 p12}, that all people are encouraged to examine other religions
and with an open mind {WT Apr 1 1991 p17} and that you are encouraged to
exhibit freedom of thought {Awake! Jun 8 1994 p21}. So, please follow this
advice of the WTBTS, and study that LIST very carefully. "You will know the
Truth and the Truth will set you free."(John 8:32). Fine advice indeed!

THE LIST IS PRODUCED IN DIRECT RESPONSE TO A RECENT REQUEST BY THE WTBTS in
{WT Dec 1 1990 p19}, where it quotes {WT Dec 15 1914 p377-8}: "If any one
knows anything better, let him take it. If any of you ever find anything
better, we hope you will tell us." Kindly, Prominent Bethelite has duly
obliged. Having read it, if you find the WTBTS has ever told falsehoods,
follow the WTBTS advice clearly given in {WT Dec 1 1991 p7} "A religion
that teaches lies cannot be true."; if you find the WTBTS has even made one
false prophecy, follow the WTBTS advice clearly given in {WT Feb 1 1992 p3}
"Beware of False Prophets!" - and cut yourself off from these Foul Cheats.
{@()@} and (@()@)
2004-01-10 01:03:53 UTC
Permalink
"Prominent Bethelite" <Anonymous-***@See.Comment.Header> wrote in
message > >>
, stood in her Catholic sister's wedding. At my wife's
Post by Prominent Bethelite
grandmother's Catholic funeral, I cracked a joke that a certain pew in the
back should be labeled the "JW Pew" as there was about 15 JWs sitting on
it.
In other words, you're full of crap. If my mom will do it, it MUST be ok!
--
Mark
=======================
Post by Prominent Bethelite
No, Mark, it is not "The Nolalu Barn Owl" who is "full of crap" - he has
pretty much correctly described Watchtower policy.
$$ Mark seems to have some strange need to defend the WTS and hide it's
dirty little secrets. Since he claims to have left the WT-Whore why defend
it? If everyone don't SEE it as he SAW it, we're all liars or full of
crap. The WTS covers all bases by their UNWRITTEN rules and laws - you
can't find them in their reams and piles of magazines and books but all
are well known to the JWs. (Tattoos and facial hair come to mind) This
way if you bring up one of them they can deny it and call you a liar.
Post by Prominent Bethelite
While Mark may not be lying (he is given to defending the old whore from
time to time, though), Mark - do give me the name(s) of the
congregations
Post by Prominent Bethelite
involved, and I assure you an investigation will be held into these matters
by the Presiding Overseer(s). I am only asking this politely as I can, of
course, identify the congregations without your assistance.
$$ Since he still thinks the WT-Whore is so good I can't see why he left
her, then defends her sins and filth.
--
Words of Wisdom....
After many years of bashing other religions under Judge Rutherford's
rallying cry, "Religion is a snare and a racket", the Watchtower now wants
to be recognized *as* one of those religions so they can receive tax
benefits. Typical.
"Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God
the things that are God's." Matthew 22:21 Vek
(Carol's note: The WT thinks it's above what's written in the Bible.
==================================================
Mark Gonzales
2004-01-10 01:42:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by {@()@} and (@()@)
$$ Mark seems to have some strange need to defend the WTS and hide it's
dirty little secrets. Since he claims to have left the WT-Whore why defend
it? If everyone don't SEE it as he SAW it, we're all liars or full of
crap. The WTS covers all bases by their UNWRITTEN rules and laws - you
can't find them in their reams and piles of magazines and books but all
are well known to the JWs. (Tattoos and facial hair come to mind) This
way if you bring up one of them they can deny it and call you a liar.
$$ Since he still thinks the WT-Whore is so good I can't see why he left
her, then defends her sins and filth.
Of the many anti-JW regulars on a.r.j.-w., why is it that I always seem to
have a problem only with you two? Actually, I usually only have a problem
with YOU, Carol, because I think you are both an outright liar and someone
who blabbers nonsense without even attempting to find any facts to back up
your claims. Sometimes PB half-heartedly steps in to defend you (no one else
will) and so we...converse, but not always.

The Watchtower may very well be a "scam" (I dunno), but this does not give
you nor anyone else a license to lie or to make crap up about it. That's the
big problem I've always had with YOU and you alone.
--


Mark
Post by {@()@} and (@()@)
--
Words of Wisdom....
After many years of bashing other religions under Judge Rutherford's
rallying cry, "Religion is a snare and a racket", the Watchtower now wants
to be recognized *as* one of those religions so they can receive tax
benefits. Typical.
"Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God
the things that are God's." Matthew 22:21 Vek
(Carol's note: The WT thinks it's above what's written in the Bible.
==================================================
=^..^=
2004-01-10 02:59:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by {@()@} and (@()@)
$$ Since he still thinks the WT-Whore is so good I can't see why he left
her, then defends her sins and filth.
======================================
Post by Mark Gonzales
Of the many anti-JW regulars on a.r.j.-w., why is it that I always seem to
have a problem only with you two?
** Because of your attitude perhaps? We're here to help free people from
the tyranny of the WTS and you resent that for some reason.

Actually, I usually only have a problem
Post by Mark Gonzales
with YOU, Carol, because I think you are both an outright liar
** Believe what you want. Next you'll be telling us that Jabriol isn't a
Troll, doesn't cross-post and never lies. You took exception to me when I
first came to this NG. Why? Because of the Jeans thread?

and someone
Post by Mark Gonzales
who blabbers nonsense without even attempting to find any facts to back up
your claims.
** Whenever I (or anyone else) posted ANYTHING here - backed up or not,
it's always DENIED! It's always Old-Light or it's been somehow "changed"
or some other excuse. Why should I load up my HD again with WTS BS that
you all reject? You reject anything and everything that's posted here -
including the Watchtower's problem with Pedophiles.

Sometimes PB half-heartedly steps in to defend you (no one else
Post by Mark Gonzales
will) and so we...converse, but not always.
** I couldn't care less who does or doesn't defend me. I'm here to EXPOSE
the WTS for what it is - not hold a tea social.
No matter who come into this NG they're called liars if they have anything
negative to sat about their experience with the WTS or JWs. It's been
that way for years now! You always play the usual WTS Blame-The-Victim
game.
Post by Mark Gonzales
The Watchtower may very well be a "scam" (I dunno),
** You know damn well it's a scam!

but this does not give
Post by Mark Gonzales
you nor anyone else a license to lie or to make crap up about it.
** I don't have to LIE! What's to LIE about? Have you ever looked into
this WTS pyramid scheme beyond this NG and some posting Board? Don't say
you have because there are hundreds of websites out there with even
SCANNED crap from this WTS. You would see what others see and you
can't.....Oh wait,... that's all OLD LIGHT....

That's the
Post by Mark Gonzales
big problem I've always had with YOU and you alone.
** Sorry that's all Old-Light and Old-Information.

Me & Him......
"Christians, it is needless to say, utterly detest each other. They
slander each
other constantly with the vilest forms of abuse and cannot come to any
sort of
agreement in their teachings. Each sect brands its own, fills the head of
its own
with deceitful nonsense, and makes perfect little pigs of those it wins
over to its
side."
- Celsus (2nd century C.E.)
~~~~~*~~~~~ ~~~~~*~~~~~ ~~~~~*~~~~~ ~~~~~*~~~~~ ~~~~~*
Mark Gonzales
2004-01-10 04:03:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by {@()@}
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by {@()@} and (@()@)
$$ Since he still thinks the WT-Whore is so good I can't see why he
left
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by {@()@} and (@()@)
her, then defends her sins and filth.
======================================
Post by Mark Gonzales
Of the many anti-JW regulars on a.r.j.-w., why is it that I always seem
to
Post by Mark Gonzales
have a problem only with you two?
** Because of your attitude perhaps? We're here to help free people from
the tyranny of the WTS and you resent that for some reason.
I resent your baseless claims and the fact that I've caught you in
inconsistencies. There is no excuse for this, IMO.
Post by {@()@}
Actually, I usually only have a problem
Post by Mark Gonzales
with YOU, Carol, because I think you are both an outright liar
** Believe what you want. Next you'll be telling us that Jabriol isn't a
Troll, doesn't cross-post and never lies.
Jabriol? Funny you should mention him (which shows you don't pay much
attention to my posts). I've never had kind words to say about, or to
Jabriol. The only time I remember speaking directly to Jabriol was on 9/7/01
when I said...

========================
"Did you serve on Tom's jury? Do you really know ANYTHING about his case?
Then why don't you shut the hell up about it!?!?...In any case, you and
Sherwood have shown no class for continually bringing it up."
========================
Post by {@()@}
You took exception to me when I
first came to this NG. Why?
Because of your sarcastic nature and because you seemed to have so much
information but never backed it up with any facts.
Post by {@()@}
Because of the Jeans thread?
I'm sorry but I don't remember any jeans thread. I'm getting 125 hits for
"jeans" in this newsgroup. Give me an approximate date and I'll look it up.
Post by {@()@}
and someone
Post by Mark Gonzales
who blabbers nonsense without even attempting to find any facts to back
up
Post by Mark Gonzales
your claims.
** Whenever I...
Yes?
Post by {@()@}
(or anyone else)...
No!
Post by {@()@}
posted ANYTHING here - backed up or not,
it's always DENIED! It's always Old-Light or it's been somehow "changed"
or some other excuse. Why should I load up my HD again with WTS BS that
you all reject? You reject anything and everything that's posted here -
including the Watchtower's problem with Pedophiles.
Hm, the only comment I remember making about the pedophile issue is that I
believe it should be the law in all states that religious leaders report
cases to the police.
Post by {@()@}
Sometimes PB half-heartedly steps in to defend you (no one else
Post by Mark Gonzales
will) and so we...converse, but not always.
** I couldn't care less who does or doesn't defend me. I'm here to EXPOSE
the WTS for what it is - not hold a tea social.
And you're doing a damn fine job of it Carol! <cough> ;-)
Post by {@()@}
No matter who come into this NG they're called liars if they have anything
negative to sat about their experience with the WTS or JWs. It's been
that way for years now! You always play the usual WTS Blame-The-Victim
game.
Post by Mark Gonzales
The Watchtower may very well be a "scam" (I dunno),
** You know damn well it's a scam!
My guess is that all religions are a scam. But you are in no position to
tell me what I "know". You trying to score points with dramatics or
something?
Post by {@()@}
but this does not give
Post by Mark Gonzales
you nor anyone else a license to lie or to make crap up about it.
** I don't have to LIE!
You're right, you don't have to lie.
Post by {@()@}
What's to LIE about? Have you ever looked into
this WTS pyramid scheme beyond this NG and some posting Board?
Nope.
Post by {@()@}
Don't say you have...
"Next you'll be telling us that..."
"You know damn well..."

Your attempts at dramatics are becoming irritating. :-(
Post by {@()@}
because there are hundreds of websites out there with even
SCANNED crap from this WTS. You would see what others see and you
can't.....Oh wait,... that's all OLD LIGHT....
When you knock your fists on your head, do you hear an echo? ;-)
Post by {@()@}
That's the
Post by Mark Gonzales
big problem I've always had with YOU and you alone.
** Sorry that's all Old-Light and Old-Information.
--


Mark
Post by {@()@}
Me & Him......
"Christians, it is needless to say, utterly detest each other. They
slander each
other constantly with the vilest forms of abuse and cannot come to any
sort of
agreement in their teachings. Each sect brands its own, fills the head of
its own
with deceitful nonsense, and makes perfect little pigs of those it wins
over to its
side."
- Celsus (2nd century C.E.)
~~~~~*~~~~~ ~~~~~*~~~~~ ~~~~~*~~~~~ ~~~~~*~~~~~ ~~~~~*
=^..^=
2004-01-10 09:13:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by =^..^=
** Because of your attitude perhaps? We're here to help free people from
the tyranny of the WTS and you resent that for some reason.
======================
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by =^..^=
I resent your baseless claims and the fact that I've caught you in
inconsistencies. There is no excuse for this, IMO.
$$ Have you caught anyone else in "inconsistencies"... for instance
Jabriol? I know you read his posts. I posted MY experiences with the NYC
and TN KHs and JWs here. YOU had the gall to call me a liar because your
experiences were different. Whenever someone *ANYONE* posted negative
experiences here you felt the need to defend the WTS and still claim
you're not one of them. There's some dishonesty involved with your claim.
You still want to project a squeaky clean image of the WTS for some
reason.
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by =^..^=
** Believe what you want. Next you'll be telling us that Jabriol isn't a
Troll, doesn't cross-post and never lies.
Jabriol? Funny you should mention him (which shows you don't pay much
attention to my posts). I've never had kind words to say about, or to
Jabriol. The only time I remember speaking directly to Jabriol was on 9/7/01
when I said...
========================
"Did you serve on Tom's jury? Do you really know ANYTHING about his case?
Then why don't you shut the hell up about it!?!?...In any case, you and
Sherwood have shown no class for continually bringing it up."
========================
$$ No. I never saw this one. No one ever posted anything to Jabbers to
shut up about that case THAT I SAW. And I wasn't here for awhile either -
you seem to have forgotten that too.
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by =^..^=
You took exception to me when I
first came to this NG. Why?
Because of your sarcastic nature and because you seemed to have so much
information but never backed it up with any facts.
$$ What facts would satisfy you? WHAT FACTS? Scans of the WTS magazines
themselves don't satisfy the JWs and their supporters. Do you expect me
to locate JWs I knew in the 60s and 70s to prove something to you? You
wouldn't believe them even if I could locate them! So who are you trying
to fool?
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by =^..^=
Because of the Jeans thread?
I'm sorry but I don't remember any jeans thread. I'm getting 125 hits for
"jeans" in this newsgroup. Give me an approximate date and I'll look it up.
$$ When did I start posting here? 1996? It was one of the first threads
I got involved in. I was called a liar before anyone on the NG even knew
me. I was accused of lying because some other congs evidently allowed
women to wear blue-jeans to the KHs and while pioneering - I can't recall
exactly. I found THAT hard to believe. That was almost 7, maybe 8 years
ago??!?! No matter what anyone said on this NG they were attacked unless
they agreed with the WT party-line or said anything even remotely negative
about the WTS the JWs or their beliefs.
Just watch the replies of the JWs when someone actually posts something to
back-up what they claim - it's ignored, rejected, or some excuse is made
such as it's old-light ...... you only seem to see what you want to see
here.
Maybe you should lecture the JWs to start accepting the PROOF when some
one does post it here.
--
Me........
"Christians, it is needless to say, utterly detest each other. They
slander each
other constantly with the vilest forms of abuse and cannot come to any
sort of
agreement in their teachings. Each sect brands its own, fills the head of
its own
with deceitful nonsense, and makes perfect little pigs of those it wins
over to its
side."
- Celsus (2nd century C.E.)
~~~~~*~~~~~ ~~~~~*~~~~~ ~~~~~*~~~~~ ~~~~~*~~~~~ ~~~~~*
Mark Gonzales
2004-01-10 11:06:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by {@()@}
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by =^..^=
** Because of your attitude perhaps? We're here to help free people
from
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by =^..^=
the tyranny of the WTS and you resent that for some reason.
======================
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by =^..^=
I resent your baseless claims and the fact that I've caught you in
inconsistencies. There is no excuse for this, IMO.
$$ Have you caught anyone else in "inconsistencies"... for instance
Jabriol? I know you read his posts.
I very seldom read Jabriol's posts as I am not interested in evolution and
related topics. Why are you referring to Jabriol, because he's a JW?
Post by {@()@}
I posted MY experiences with the NYC
and TN KHs and JWs here. YOU had the gall to call me a liar because your
experiences were different.
I called you a liar because your statements were both contradictory and
false. For example (regarding the contribution boxes in the KH), you said...

================
"## Why are the JWs so worried that someone might look to see how much they
gave? When bills are rolled or folded no one would know anyway - and who
would care?" - July 11, 2003
================

You are implying above that no one can see what is put into the contribution
box as bills are rolled and folded (no doubt to fit easily into the slot and
for discretion) and this is correct, as well as the part about no one
caring.

But before, you said...

================
"The donations are COERCED,... everyone can see who puts what in the box at
the KHs." - June 1, 2003
================

See the contradiction?

Now we all know that your June 1 post was BS anyway, as was this one...

================
"They know by how many of their rags you're placing - as to what to expect
in the way of $$$ from you." - June 8, 2003
================


Now here's a real classic...

================
"* They have the box at the door and you were EXPECTED to donate at every
meeting!" - April 7, 2000
================

First off, it's total BS (false). Secondly, how would you know if you only
attended a very limited number of meetings throughout the week
(contradiction)?

================
"$$$ Nope.... Never went to TMS. I had a family to raise and a full time
job... and other obligations." - January 6, 1999


"You KNOW I stayed as far from the KH involvement as I could. Sunday was
enough for me. I wasn't interested in...spending any more time with them
then the Sunday 2 hour services...." - January 8, 1999
================

Again, see the contradiction?
Post by {@()@}
Whenever someone *ANYONE* posted negative
experiences here you felt the need to defend the WTS and still claim
you're not one of them.
False! Most negative threads I'm not even participating in. Unlike yourself,
I tend to stick with only one or two threads at a time. However, whenever
*ANYONE* posts an experience (negative or positive) YOU always have to put
your $.02 in.
Post by {@()@}
There's some dishonesty involved with your claim.
You still want to project a squeaky clean image of the WTS for some
reason.
What goofy statements.
Post by {@()@}
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by =^..^=
** Believe what you want. Next you'll be telling us that Jabriol
isn't a
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by =^..^=
Troll, doesn't cross-post and never lies.
Jabriol? Funny you should mention him (which shows you don't pay much
attention to my posts). I've never had kind words to say about, or to
Jabriol. The only time I remember speaking directly to Jabriol was on
9/7/01
Post by Mark Gonzales
when I said...
========================
"Did you serve on Tom's jury? Do you really know ANYTHING about his
case?
Post by Mark Gonzales
Then why don't you shut the hell up about it!?!?...In any case, you and
Sherwood have shown no class for continually bringing it up."
========================
$$ No. I never saw this one. No one ever posted anything to Jabbers to
shut up about that case THAT I SAW. And I wasn't here for awhile either -
you seem to have forgotten that too.
How very strange, since you participated 3 times on that very thread of only
19 posts (Subject: Re: The Tom Tally Directive on Mental Health... Another
truthseeker thread). No matter, I never accused you of paying much
attention. ;-)
Post by {@()@}
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by =^..^=
You took exception to me when I
first came to this NG. Why?
Because of your sarcastic nature and because you seemed to have so much
information but never backed it up with any facts.
$$ What facts would satisfy you? WHAT FACTS?
You are always making unsupported claims, Carol. It's what you do.
Post by {@()@}
Scans of the WTS magazines
themselves don't satisfy the JWs and their supporters. Do you expect me
to locate JWs I knew in the 60s and 70s to prove something to you? You
wouldn't believe them even if I could locate them! So who are you trying
to fool?
You.
Post by {@()@}
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by =^..^=
Because of the Jeans thread?
I'm sorry but I don't remember any jeans thread. I'm getting 125 hits
for
Post by Mark Gonzales
"jeans" in this newsgroup. Give me an approximate date and I'll look it
up.
$$ When did I start posting here? 1996? It was one of the first threads
I got involved in. I was called a liar before anyone on the NG even knew
me.
It seems to me that you were called a liar because you were coming off as
having been-there-done-that and were exposed for not having done much of
anything at all. Your Kult Kredentials are pathetic to say the least.
Post by {@()@}
I was accused of lying because some other congs evidently allowed
women to wear blue-jeans to the KHs and while pioneering - I can't recall
exactly. I found THAT hard to believe. That was almost 7, maybe 8 years
ago??!?! No matter what anyone said on this NG they were attacked unless
they agreed with the WT party-line or said anything even remotely negative
about the WTS the JWs or their beliefs.
An anti playing the poor victim on a.r.j.-w.? Now that's pretty funny.
Post by {@()@}
Just watch the replies of the JWs when someone actually posts something to
back-up what they claim - it's ignored, rejected, or some excuse is made
such as it's old-light ...... you only seem to see what you want to see
here.
Maybe you should lecture the JWs to start accepting the PROOF when some
one does post it here.
Eh, it's not my job to lecture to anyone. ;-)
--


Mark
Post by {@()@}
--
Me........
"Christians, it is needless to say, utterly detest each other. They
slander each
other constantly with the vilest forms of abuse and cannot come to any
sort of
agreement in their teachings. Each sect brands its own, fills the head of
its own
with deceitful nonsense, and makes perfect little pigs of those it wins
over to its
side."
- Celsus (2nd century C.E.)
~~~~~*~~~~~ ~~~~~*~~~~~ ~~~~~*~~~~~ ~~~~~*~~~~~ ~~~~~*
}<((((o>
2004-01-10 19:30:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Gonzales
I very seldom read Jabriol's posts as I am not interested in evolution and
related topics. Why are you referring to Jabriol, because he's a JW?
$$ No, because he's HERE and he lies like a rug.
Post by Mark Gonzales
I called you a liar because your statements were both contradictory and
false. For example (regarding the contribution boxes in the KH), you said...
================
"## Why are the JWs so worried that someone might look to see how much they
gave? When bills are rolled or folded no one would know anyway - and who
would care?" - July 11, 2003
================
$$$ And this is true at most of the KHs I visited over the years.
Post by Mark Gonzales
You are implying above that no one can see what is put into the contribution
box as bills are rolled and folded (no doubt to fit easily into the slot and
for discretion) and this is correct, as well as the part about no one
caring.
But before, you said...
================
"The donations are COERCED,... everyone can see who puts what in the box at
the KHs." - June 1, 2003
$$$ And THIS is also true. This is what I mean about you and the JWs.
You CAN see if people give even though you may not be able to tell if it's
a $10 bill or a $1 bill. No one walks PAST the box and puts in nothing
or coins. You're twisting it to appear I was lying. How come you never
do this with the JWs who post here?
Post by Mark Gonzales
================
See the contradiction?
$$$ No. I see an twisting the TRUTH. But why should that suprise me here?
Post by Mark Gonzales
Now we all know that your June 1 post was BS anyway, as was this one...
================
"They know by how many of their rags you're placing - as to what to expect
in the way of $$$ from you." - June 8, 2003
================
$$$ They don't *know* anymore? OK... they have more "New Light" I didn't
know about. Who can keep up?
Post by Mark Gonzales
Now here's a real classic...
================
"* They have the box at the door and you were EXPECTED to donate at every
meeting!" - April 7, 2000
================
First off, it's total BS (false). Secondly, how would you know if you only
attended a very limited number of meetings throughout the week
(contradiction)?
$$$ It was total BS in your congas - not the ones I went to. NO ONE
walked past the boxes without putting bills in. If they added coins I
never saw it. And to cover my butt as the WTS does - they probably do put
coins in and I never happened to see it.

You're wasting my time as usual with this same old crap. :-) Twist away,
I'm sure Perez will believe ever word.
--
Belle A. Donner....
From The Pagan WTS's astrological hocus pocus...
"When Uranus and Jupiter meet in the humane sign of Aquarius in 1914, the
long-promised era will have made a fair start in the work of setting man
free to work out his own salvation, and will insure the ultimate
realization
of dreams and ideals of all poets and sages in history." (Watchtower, May
1,
1903, p. 130-131; p3184 Reprints)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~><>
Mark Gonzales
2004-01-11 05:25:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by }<((((o>
Post by Mark Gonzales
I very seldom read Jabriol's posts as I am not interested in evolution
and
Post by Mark Gonzales
related topics. Why are you referring to Jabriol, because he's a JW?
$$ No, because he's HERE and he lies like a rug.
So expose him for being a liar. Let me tell you, it's kind of fun until you
get bored with it.
Post by }<((((o>
Post by Mark Gonzales
I called you a liar because your statements were both contradictory and
false. For example (regarding the contribution boxes in the KH), you
said...
Post by Mark Gonzales
================
"## Why are the JWs so worried that someone might look to see how much
they
Post by Mark Gonzales
gave? When bills are rolled or folded no one would know anyway - and
who
Post by Mark Gonzales
would care?" - July 11, 2003
================
$$$ And this is true at most of the KHs I visited over the years.
Post by Mark Gonzales
You are implying above that no one can see what is put into the
contribution
Post by Mark Gonzales
box as bills are rolled and folded (no doubt to fit easily into the slot
and
Post by Mark Gonzales
for discretion) and this is correct, as well as the part about no one
caring.
But before, you said...
================
"The donations are COERCED,... everyone can see who puts what in the box
at
Post by Mark Gonzales
the KHs." - June 1, 2003
$$$ And THIS is also true. This is what I mean about you and the JWs.
You CAN see if people give even though you may not be able to tell if it's
a $10 bill or a $1 bill.
But only if you're watching the boxes and YOU are the only person I've ever
known to have admitted doing this. It's not normal, IMO.
Post by }<((((o>
No one walks PAST the box and puts in nothing
or coins. You're twisting it to appear I was lying. How come you never
do this with the JWs who post here?
Post by Mark Gonzales
================
See the contradiction?
$$$ No. I see an twisting the TRUTH. But why should that suprise me here?
Well, I certainly don't feel that I'm twisting your words (i.e. miss-quoting
or taking them out of context).
Post by }<((((o>
Post by Mark Gonzales
Now we all know that your June 1 post was BS anyway, as was this one...
================
"They know by how many of their rags you're placing - as to what to
expect
Post by Mark Gonzales
in the way of $$$ from you." - June 8, 2003
================
$$$ They don't *know* anymore? OK... they have more "New Light" I didn't
know about. Who can keep up?
Post by Mark Gonzales
Now here's a real classic...
================
"* They have the box at the door and you were EXPECTED to donate at
every
Post by Mark Gonzales
meeting!" - April 7, 2000
================
First off, it's total BS (false). Secondly, how would you know if you
only
Post by Mark Gonzales
attended a very limited number of meetings throughout the week
(contradiction)?
$$$ It was total BS in your congas - not the ones I went to. NO ONE
walked past the boxes without putting bills in. If they added coins I
never saw it. And to cover my butt as the WTS does - they probably do put
coins in and I never happened to see it.
So you went to multiple congregations where "NO ONE walked past the boxes
without putting bills in". But of course, by your own words you only made
the Sunday meetings so we have to apply this only to Sunday, right? So at
every Sunday meeting, "NO ONE walked past the boxes without putting bills
in", correct? Oh, and of course you must have been watching the boxes to
know this.

Dig, dig, dig. ;-)
Post by }<((((o>
You're wasting my time as usual with this same old crap. :-)
Usenet is usually a waste of time, IMO, though entertaining.
Post by }<((((o>
Twist away,
I'm sure Perez will believe ever word.
Can't say I really care what Perez believes. ;-)
--


Mark
Post by }<((((o>
--
Belle A. Donner....
From The Pagan WTS's astrological hocus pocus...
"When Uranus and Jupiter meet in the humane sign of Aquarius in 1914, the
long-promised era will have made a fair start in the work of setting man
free to work out his own salvation, and will insure the ultimate
realization
of dreams and ideals of all poets and sages in history." (Watchtower, May
1,
1903, p. 130-131; p3184 Reprints)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~><>
Letz ExPozem
2004-01-11 07:30:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by }<((((o>
$$ No, because he's HERE and he lies like a rug.
So expose him for being a liar. Let me tell you, it's kind of fun until you
get bored with it.
## Don't get bored with.
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by }<((((o>
$$$ And THIS is also true. This is what I mean about you and the JWs.
You CAN see if people give even though you may not be able to tell if it's
a $10 bill or a $1 bill.
But only if you're watching the boxes and YOU are the only person I've ever
known to have admitted doing this. It's not normal, IMO.
## So because they didn't admit they saw people putting bills in the boxes
means they put bags over their heads as they passed the boxes on the way
to the doors? They averted their eyes in shame? They were blindfolded to
pass the donation plate,...er,... I mean boxes?
--
Momma Mia....
Some fine artwork from the Watchtower Society
"NOTE: Not recommended for children."
http://www.intrex.net/talley/WT_Home1.html
http://www.jwfiles.com/child.htm
http://www.jwfiles.com/art/Babylon1963p577.htm
http://www.jwfiles.com/outline.htm <-- excellent site - contains WTS rag
scans.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~><>
Mark Gonzales
2004-01-11 06:14:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by }<((((o>
You're twisting it to appear I was lying. How come you never
do this with the JWs who post here?
While I don't believe that I ever twisted your words, I would like to point
out that I have used one JW's own words against them in this newsgroup.
--


Mark
Letz ExPozem
2004-01-11 07:31:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by }<((((o>
You're twisting it to appear I was lying. How come you never
do this with the JWs who post here?
While I don't believe that I ever twisted your words, I would like to point
out that I have used one JW's own words against them in this newsgroup.
$$ So you do read the JWs posts here........
--
Momma Mia....
Some fine artwork from the Watchtower Society
"NOTE: Not recommended for children."
http://www.intrex.net/talley/WT_Home1.html
http://www.jwfiles.com/child.htm
http://www.jwfiles.com/art/Babylon1963p577.htm
http://www.jwfiles.com/outline.htm <-- excellent site - contains WTS rag
scans.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~><>
Mark Gonzales
2004-01-11 08:00:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Letz ExPozem
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by }<((((o>
You're twisting it to appear I was lying. How come you never
do this with the JWs who post here?
While I don't believe that I ever twisted your words, I would like to
point
Post by Mark Gonzales
out that I have used one JW's own words against them in this newsgroup.
$$ So you do read the JWs posts here........
When did I say that I didn't?
--


Mark
Post by Letz ExPozem
--
Momma Mia....
Some fine artwork from the Watchtower Society
"NOTE: Not recommended for children."
http://www.intrex.net/talley/WT_Home1.html
http://www.jwfiles.com/child.htm
http://www.jwfiles.com/art/Babylon1963p577.htm
http://www.jwfiles.com/outline.htm <-- excellent site - contains WTS rag
scans.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~><>
Roger Pearse
2004-01-10 20:33:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by {@()@} and (@()@)
--
Me........
"Christians, it is needless to say, utterly detest each other. They
slander each other constantly with the vilest forms of abuse and
cannot come to any sort of agreement in their teachings. Each sect brands
its own, fills the head of its own with deceitful nonsense, and makes
perfect little pigs of those it wins over to its side."
- Celsus (2nd century C.E.)
'Fraid not. This was written by R.J.Hoffmann in the 1980's in a bogus
'translation' of Celsus. Celsus is lost, but large chunks are
preserved verbatim in Origen. Hoffmann reedited them to make them
sound like modern atheist hate-speech, rather than Platonist/Epicurean
pagan polemic. Hoffmann's rewriting was noted unfavourably in one of
the only two academic journals to review the book.

The real passage in Chadwick's standard translation:

... some are called 'branding-irons of hearing' ... some are called
'enigmas'... some called Sirens who are cheats of disgraceful conduct,
who seal up the ears of those whom they win over, and make their heads
like those of pigs ... And you will hear all those, he says, who
disagree so violently and by their strife refute themselves to their
utter disgrace, saying 'The world is crucified unto me and I to the
world'. (Contra Celsum 5:64).

All the best,

Roger Pearse
Letz ExPozem
2004-01-10 22:37:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roger Pearse
Post by {@()@} and (@()@)
--
Me........
"Christians, it is needless to say, utterly detest each other. They
slander each other constantly with the vilest forms of abuse and
cannot come to any sort of agreement in their teachings. Each sect brands
its own, fills the head of its own with deceitful nonsense, and makes
perfect little pigs of those it wins over to its side."
- Celsus (2nd century C.E.)
'Fraid not. This was written by R.J.Hoffmann in the 1980's in a bogus
'translation' of Celsus. Celsus is lost, but large chunks are
preserved verbatim in Origen. Hoffmann reedited them to make them
sound like modern atheist hate-speech, rather than Platonist/Epicurean
pagan polemic. Hoffmann's rewriting was noted unfavourably in one of
the only two academic journals to review the book.
... some are called 'branding-irons of hearing' ... some are called
'enigmas'... some called Sirens who are cheats of disgraceful conduct,
who seal up the ears of those whom they win over, and make their heads
like those of pigs ... And you will hear all those, he says, who
disagree so violently and by their strife refute themselves to their
utter disgrace, saying 'The world is crucified unto me and I to the
world'. (Contra Celsum 5:64).
All the best,
Roger Pearse
Mark Gonzales
2004-01-11 06:07:10 UTC
Permalink
This came out of left field, but then I realized your were responding to
Carol's sig.
--


Mark
Post by Roger Pearse
Post by {@()@} and (@()@)
--
Me........
"Christians, it is needless to say, utterly detest each other. They
slander each other constantly with the vilest forms of abuse and
cannot come to any sort of agreement in their teachings. Each sect brands
its own, fills the head of its own with deceitful nonsense, and makes
perfect little pigs of those it wins over to its side."
- Celsus (2nd century C.E.)
'Fraid not. This was written by R.J.Hoffmann in the 1980's in a bogus
'translation' of Celsus. Celsus is lost, but large chunks are
preserved verbatim in Origen. Hoffmann reedited them to make them
sound like modern atheist hate-speech, rather than Platonist/Epicurean
pagan polemic. Hoffmann's rewriting was noted unfavourably in one of
the only two academic journals to review the book.
... some are called 'branding-irons of hearing' ... some are called
'enigmas'... some called Sirens who are cheats of disgraceful conduct,
who seal up the ears of those whom they win over, and make their heads
like those of pigs ... And you will hear all those, he says, who
disagree so violently and by their strife refute themselves to their
utter disgrace, saying 'The world is crucified unto me and I to the
world'. (Contra Celsum 5:64).
All the best,
Roger Pearse
L Perez
2004-01-11 06:33:55 UTC
Permalink
WHAT?!? SAY IT ISN'T TRUE!!!
carol posted some deceptive misquote... how strange...

<sniff> what's that I smell??? oh, that's sarcasm!
--
BEWARE! there are people on this newsgroup who are only here to slander and
lie about Jehovah's Witnesses. They do not offer any alternative
organization... as a matter of fact, some are admitted atheists (Matthew
12:30; John 8:44-47) I have all of their posts filtered out because they can
not hold an intelligent conversation and often resort to lies. They claim to
be quoting from Watch Tower literature but these are *NOT* exact quotes,
they change words and quote things out of context. I don't respond to
spurious fabrications. Hence if you see that I am not answering someone, it
is because their previous attempts at deception have earned them a place in
the 'block sender' file. They exist here only to destroy (1 Corinthians
10:6-11) They speak not as Christians (Ephesians 4:31-32) I do not need to
name them for by their fruits you will recognize them (Matthew 7:16-20) One
has to wonder, why was a newsgroup set up to attack this *one* organization?
Matthew 5:10-12
Post by Mark Gonzales
This came out of left field, but then I realized your were responding to
Carol's sig.
--
Mark
Post by Roger Pearse
Post by {@()@} and (@()@)
--
Me........
"Christians, it is needless to say, utterly detest each other. They
slander each other constantly with the vilest forms of abuse and
cannot come to any sort of agreement in their teachings. Each sect
brands
Post by Roger Pearse
Post by {@()@} and (@()@)
its own, fills the head of its own with deceitful nonsense, and makes
perfect little pigs of those it wins over to its side."
- Celsus (2nd century C.E.)
'Fraid not. This was written by R.J.Hoffmann in the 1980's in a bogus
'translation' of Celsus. Celsus is lost, but large chunks are
preserved verbatim in Origen. Hoffmann reedited them to make them
sound like modern atheist hate-speech, rather than Platonist/Epicurean
pagan polemic. Hoffmann's rewriting was noted unfavourably in one of
the only two academic journals to review the book.
... some are called 'branding-irons of hearing' ... some are called
'enigmas'... some called Sirens who are cheats of disgraceful conduct,
who seal up the ears of those whom they win over, and make their heads
like those of pigs ... And you will hear all those, he says, who
disagree so violently and by their strife refute themselves to their
utter disgrace, saying 'The world is crucified unto me and I to the
world'. (Contra Celsum 5:64).
All the best,
Roger Pearse
Letz ExPozem
2004-01-11 07:32:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by L Perez
WHAT?!? SAY IT ISN'T TRUE!!!
carol posted some deceptive misquote... how strange...
<sniff> what's that I smell??? oh, that's sarcasm!
===============
Nope! All the STINK on this NG is Watchtower BS! ;-)
--
Momma Mia....
Some fine artwork from the Watchtower Society
"NOTE: Not recommended for children."
http://www.intrex.net/talley/WT_Home1.html
http://www.jwfiles.com/child.htm
http://www.jwfiles.com/art/Babylon1963p577.htm
http://www.jwfiles.com/outline.htm <-- excellent site - contains WTS rag
scans.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~><>
Roger Pearse
2004-01-12 15:26:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Gonzales
This came out of left field, but then I realized your were responding to
Carol's sig.
I was unclear where it came from in the thread, but didn't see that as
important. I wondered about it ages ago, went and looked,found it
bogus and documented what I found. It resurfaces from time to time.
I just happened to see it.

All the best,

Roger Pearse
L Perez
2004-01-11 06:20:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Gonzales
Now here's a real classic...
================
"* They have the box at the door and you were EXPECTED to donate at every
meeting!" - April 7, 2000
================
LOL... you have no idea how many meetings I've gone to without putting
anything in the little box in the back of the hall... OTOH I get my light
bill every month and they will cut off my elec if I dont pay it so I usually
put in something once a month if I remember to.
Post by Mark Gonzales
First off, it's total BS (false). Secondly, how would you know if you only
attended a very limited number of meetings throughout the week
(contradiction)?
--
BEWARE! there are people on this newsgroup who are only here to slander and
lie about Jehovah's Witnesses. They do not offer any alternative
organization... as a matter of fact, some are admitted atheists (Matthew
12:30; John 8:44-47) I have all of their posts filtered out because they can
not hold an intelligent conversation and often resort to lies. They claim to
be quoting from Watch Tower literature but these are *NOT* exact quotes,
they change words and quote things out of context. I don't respond to
spurious fabrications. Hence if you see that I am not answering someone, it
is because their previous attempts at deception have earned them a place in
the 'block sender' file. They exist here only to destroy (1 Corinthians
10:6-11) They speak not as Christians (Ephesians 4:31-32) I do not need to
name them for by their fruits you will recognize them (Matthew 7:16-20) One
has to wonder, why was a newsgroup set up to attack this *one* organization?
Matthew 5:10-12
Mark Gonzales
2004-01-11 06:31:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by L Perez
Post by Mark Gonzales
Now here's a real classic...
================
"* They have the box at the door and you were EXPECTED to donate at every
meeting!" - April 7, 2000
================
LOL... you have no idea how many meetings I've gone to without putting
anything in the little box in the back of the hall... OTOH I get my light
bill every month and they will cut off my elec if I dont pay it so I usually
put in something once a month if I remember to.
This seems to be the norm judging by these ex-JW comments on the subject...
=====================================
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/52110/1.ashx
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/53370/1.ashx
--


Mark
Post by L Perez
Post by Mark Gonzales
First off, it's total BS (false). Secondly, how would you know if you only
attended a very limited number of meetings throughout the week
(contradiction)?
--
BEWARE! there are people on this newsgroup who are only here to slander and
lie about Jehovah's Witnesses. They do not offer any alternative
organization... as a matter of fact, some are admitted atheists (Matthew
12:30; John 8:44-47) I have all of their posts filtered out because they can
not hold an intelligent conversation and often resort to lies. They claim to
be quoting from Watch Tower literature but these are *NOT* exact quotes,
they change words and quote things out of context. I don't respond to
spurious fabrications. Hence if you see that I am not answering someone, it
is because their previous attempts at deception have earned them a place in
the 'block sender' file. They exist here only to destroy (1 Corinthians
10:6-11) They speak not as Christians (Ephesians 4:31-32) I do not need to
name them for by their fruits you will recognize them (Matthew 7:16-20) One
has to wonder, why was a newsgroup set up to attack this *one*
organization?
Post by L Perez
Matthew 5:10-12
Letz ExPozem
2004-01-11 07:38:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Gonzales
This seems to be the norm judging by these ex-JW comments on the subject...
=====================================
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/52110/1.ashx
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/53370/1.ashx
==================
But these were all people who ALREADY knew what a scam the WTS was. Why
would they donate anything? And even then, as they said, GUILT made
(caused by the WTS) some of them gave.
--
Momma Mia....
Some fine artwork from the Watchtower Society
"NOTE: Not recommended for children."
http://www.intrex.net/talley/WT_Home1.html
http://www.jwfiles.com/child.htm
http://www.jwfiles.com/art/Babylon1963p577.htm
http://www.jwfiles.com/outline.htm <-- excellent site - contains WTS rag
scans.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~><>
Mark Gonzales
2004-01-11 08:22:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by Mark Gonzales
This seems to be the norm judging by these ex-JW comments on the
subject...
Post by Mark Gonzales
=====================================
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/52110/1.ashx
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/53370/1.ashx
==================
But these were all people who ALREADY knew what a scam the WTS was.
Sorry, but I see no indication of this.
Post by Mark Gonzales
Why would they donate anything?
Isn't it interesting how everyone else's experience seems to differ from
yours (for better or for worse)? Add to that your contradictions, well...
Post by Mark Gonzales
And even then, as they said, GUILT made (caused by the WTS) some of them
gave.

"Some" being a key word here (or in this case, one?), yet others claim to go
years and not give anything. Seems allot different from YOUR experiences,
doesn't it?
Post by Mark Gonzales
--
Momma Mia....
Some fine artwork from the Watchtower Society
"NOTE: Not recommended for children."
http://www.intrex.net/talley/WT_Home1.html
http://www.jwfiles.com/child.htm
http://www.jwfiles.com/art/Babylon1963p577.htm
http://www.jwfiles.com/outline.htm <-- excellent site - contains WTS rag
scans.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~><>
Letz ExPozem Goode
2004-01-11 22:23:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Gonzales
"Some" being a key word here (or in this case, one?), yet others claim to go
years and not give anything. Seems allot different from YOUR
experiences,
Post by Mark Gonzales
doesn't it?
--------------
If these congs were in the upper middle class areas of NYC and TN - Yes.
--
Momma Mia....
Some fine artwork from the Watchtower Society
"NOTE: Not recommended for children."
http://www.intrex.net/talley/WT_Home1.html
http://www.jwfiles.com/child.htm
http://www.jwfiles.com/art/Babylon1963p577.htm
http://www.jwfiles.com/outline.htm <-- excellent site - contains WTS rag
scans.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~><>
Letz ExPozem
2004-01-11 07:40:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Gonzales
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/52110/1.ashx
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/53370/1.ashx
==============================================
IP: XB2XjkYV9lIufvLW

blondieRe: Does the Watchtower has a suggestive (quota) on how much you
should donate?Jun 7, 2003

When I still attended, there were some sly ways they did suggest amounts.

One, when they still paid the health and car insurance for the CO and his
wife, the congregation would be assessed around $5 per publisher. The
congregation had to pay the whole amount regardless but they would
announce that each publisher's "suggested" amount was $5.
Two, when they wanted to build or remodel a hall, they would take the
total amount and divide it by publishers to give people an idea of how
much they should "pledge" anonymously.
Third, for some time at the circuit assemblies, they would take the total
amount needed to put on the assembly and divide it by the average number
who attended and gave out that dollar amount as a "suggested" goal for
each family. It used to be $5 per family member.
Fourth, when audiotapes, videotapes, CDs, etc., came out they "suggested"
that donations reflect the cost of such things "in the world" naming
amounts such as $75 for a videotape.
--
Momma Mia....
Some fine artwork from the Watchtower Society
"NOTE: Not recommended for children."
http://www.intrex.net/talley/WT_Home1.html
http://www.jwfiles.com/child.htm
http://www.jwfiles.com/art/Babylon1963p577.htm
http://www.jwfiles.com/outline.htm <-- excellent site - contains WTS rag
scans.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~><>
Mark Gonzales
2004-01-11 08:26:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by {@()@}
Post by Mark Gonzales
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/52110/1.ashx
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/53370/1.ashx
==============================================
IP: XB2XjkYV9lIufvLW
blondieRe: Does the Watchtower has a suggestive (quota) on how much you
should donate?Jun 7, 2003
When I still attended, there were some sly ways they did suggest amounts.
One, when they still paid the health and car insurance for the CO and his
wife, the congregation would be assessed around $5 per publisher. The
congregation had to pay the whole amount regardless but they would
announce that each publisher's "suggested" amount was $5.
Two, when they wanted to build or remodel a hall, they would take the
total amount and divide it by publishers to give people an idea of how
much they should "pledge" anonymously.
Third, for some time at the circuit assemblies, they would take the total
amount needed to put on the assembly and divide it by the average number
who attended and gave out that dollar amount as a "suggested" goal for
each family. It used to be $5 per family member.
Fourth, when audiotapes, videotapes, CDs, etc., came out they "suggested"
that donations reflect the cost of such things "in the world" naming
amounts such as $75 for a videotape.
There's really no need to cherry pick quotes as I've provided links to the
entire threads. But being that these links are from an anti-JW site, don't
you think the viewpoints were balanced?
--


Mark
Post by {@()@}
--
Momma Mia....
Some fine artwork from the Watchtower Society
"NOTE: Not recommended for children."
http://www.intrex.net/talley/WT_Home1.html
http://www.jwfiles.com/child.htm
http://www.jwfiles.com/art/Babylon1963p577.htm
http://www.jwfiles.com/outline.htm <-- excellent site - contains WTS rag
scans.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~><>
Letz ExPozem
2004-01-11 07:34:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by L Perez
Post by Mark Gonzales
Now here's a real classic...
================
"* They have the box at the door and you were EXPECTED to donate at every
meeting!" - April 7, 2000
================
LOL... you have no idea how many meetings I've gone to without putting
anything in the little box in the back of the hall...
$$ LOL.... you have no idea how many meetings I've gone to and NO ONE
walked past the donation box on the way to the door without putting BILLS
in the slot. ;-)

OTOH I get my light
Post by L Perez
bill every month and they will cut off my elec if I dont pay it so I usually
put in something once a month if I remember to.
$$ So you pay your light bill at the DONATION BOX at the KHs.... how odd.
--
Momma Mia....
Some fine artwork from the Watchtower Society
"NOTE: Not recommended for children."
http://www.intrex.net/talley/WT_Home1.html
http://www.jwfiles.com/child.htm
http://www.jwfiles.com/art/Babylon1963p577.htm
http://www.jwfiles.com/outline.htm <-- excellent site - contains WTS rag
scans.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~><>
Mark Gonzales
2004-01-11 08:50:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Letz ExPozem
Post by L Perez
Post by Mark Gonzales
Now here's a real classic...
================
"* They have the box at the door and you were EXPECTED to donate at
every
Post by L Perez
Post by Mark Gonzales
meeting!" - April 7, 2000
================
LOL... you have no idea how many meetings I've gone to without putting
anything in the little box in the back of the hall...
$$ LOL.... you have no idea how many meetings I've gone to and NO ONE
walked past the donation box on the way to the door without putting BILLS
in the slot. ;-)
And keep in mind that Carol witnessed this only on Sundays, when the
congregation finances aren't even mentioned! ;-)
--


Mark
Post by Letz ExPozem
OTOH I get my light
Post by L Perez
bill every month and they will cut off my elec if I dont pay it so I
usually
Post by L Perez
put in something once a month if I remember to.
$$ So you pay your light bill at the DONATION BOX at the KHs.... how odd.
--
Momma Mia....
Some fine artwork from the Watchtower Society
"NOTE: Not recommended for children."
http://www.intrex.net/talley/WT_Home1.html
http://www.jwfiles.com/child.htm
http://www.jwfiles.com/art/Babylon1963p577.htm
http://www.jwfiles.com/outline.htm <-- excellent site - contains WTS rag
scans.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~><>
L Perez
2004-01-11 10:11:45 UTC
Permalink
Mark,
I'm glad someone is exposing carol but really, she is pretty much ignored
around here so I think you have made her entire year 2004 a success in her
pitiful state
--
BEWARE! there are people on this newsgroup who are only here to slander and
lie about Jehovah's Witnesses. They do not offer any alternative
organization... as a matter of fact, some are admitted atheists (Matthew
12:30; John 8:44-47) I have all of their posts filtered out because they can
not hold an intelligent conversation and often resort to lies. They claim to
be quoting from Watch Tower literature but these are *NOT* exact quotes,
they change words and quote things out of context. I don't respond to
spurious fabrications. Hence if you see that I am not answering someone, it
is because their previous attempts at deception have earned them a place in
the 'block sender' file. They exist here only to destroy (1 Corinthians
10:6-11) They speak not as Christians (Ephesians 4:31-32) I do not need to
name them for by their fruits you will recognize them (Matthew 7:16-20) One
has to wonder, why was a newsgroup set up to attack this *one* organization?
Matthew 5:10-12
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by Letz ExPozem
Post by L Perez
Post by Mark Gonzales
Now here's a real classic...
================
"* They have the box at the door and you were EXPECTED to donate at
every
Post by L Perez
Post by Mark Gonzales
meeting!" - April 7, 2000
================
LOL... you have no idea how many meetings I've gone to without putting
anything in the little box in the back of the hall...
$$ LOL.... you have no idea how many meetings I've gone to and NO ONE
walked past the donation box on the way to the door without putting BILLS
in the slot. ;-)
And keep in mind that Carol witnessed this only on Sundays, when the
congregation finances aren't even mentioned! ;-)
--
Mark
Post by Letz ExPozem
OTOH I get my light
Post by L Perez
bill every month and they will cut off my elec if I dont pay it so I
usually
Post by L Perez
put in something once a month if I remember to.
$$ So you pay your light bill at the DONATION BOX at the KHs.... how odd.
--
Momma Mia....
Some fine artwork from the Watchtower Society
"NOTE: Not recommended for children."
http://www.intrex.net/talley/WT_Home1.html
http://www.jwfiles.com/child.htm
http://www.jwfiles.com/art/Babylon1963p577.htm
http://www.jwfiles.com/outline.htm <-- excellent site - contains WTS rag
scans.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~><>
Barb Hoy
2004-01-11 15:10:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by L Perez
Mark,
I'm glad someone is exposing carol but really, she is pretty much ignored
I think you are confused. it is YOU who is pretty much ignored here, not
Carol.

Barb
Post by L Perez
around here so I think you have made her entire year 2004 a success in her
pitiful state
--
BEWARE! there are people on this newsgroup who are only here to slander and
lie about Jehovah's Witnesses. They do not offer any alternative
organization... as a matter of fact, some are admitted atheists (Matthew
12:30; John 8:44-47) I have all of their posts filtered out because they can
not hold an intelligent conversation and often resort to lies. They claim to
be quoting from Watch Tower literature but these are *NOT* exact quotes,
they change words and quote things out of context. I don't respond to
spurious fabrications. Hence if you see that I am not answering someone, it
is because their previous attempts at deception have earned them a place in
the 'block sender' file. They exist here only to destroy (1 Corinthians
10:6-11) They speak not as Christians (Ephesians 4:31-32) I do not need to
name them for by their fruits you will recognize them (Matthew 7:16-20) One
has to wonder, why was a newsgroup set up to attack this *one*
organization?
Post by L Perez
Matthew 5:10-12
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by Letz ExPozem
Post by L Perez
Post by Mark Gonzales
Now here's a real classic...
================
"* They have the box at the door and you were EXPECTED to donate at
every
Post by L Perez
Post by Mark Gonzales
meeting!" - April 7, 2000
================
LOL... you have no idea how many meetings I've gone to without putting
anything in the little box in the back of the hall...
$$ LOL.... you have no idea how many meetings I've gone to and NO ONE
walked past the donation box on the way to the door without putting
BILLS
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by Letz ExPozem
in the slot. ;-)
And keep in mind that Carol witnessed this only on Sundays, when the
congregation finances aren't even mentioned! ;-)
--
Mark
Post by Letz ExPozem
OTOH I get my light
Post by L Perez
bill every month and they will cut off my elec if I dont pay it so I
usually
Post by L Perez
put in something once a month if I remember to.
$$ So you pay your light bill at the DONATION BOX at the KHs.... how
odd.
Post by Mark Gonzales
Post by Letz ExPozem
--
Momma Mia....
Some fine artwork from the Watchtower Society
"NOTE: Not recommended for children."
http://www.intrex.net/talley/WT_Home1.html
http://www.jwfiles.com/child.htm
http://www.jwfiles.com/art/Babylon1963p577.htm
http://www.jwfiles.com/outline.htm <-- excellent site - contains WTS rag
scans.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~><>
davers_disfellowshiped
2004-01-11 20:42:18 UTC
Permalink
In article <hHdMb.10866$***@news1.news.adelphia.net>,
***@adelphia.net says...
`#
`#"L Perez" <***@hotmail.com> wrote in message
`#news:Ye2dnYv868rqvJzdRVn-***@comcast.com...
`#> Mark,
`#> I'm glad someone is exposing carol but really, she is pretty much ignored
`#
`#I think you are confused. it is YOU who is pretty much ignored here, not
`#Carol.
`#
`#Barb

That is not evident from the number of follow ups to his posts...;0)

Compared of course to carol...;0)

Side point, I need you to talk to William, he has been posting jpg
attachments to the newsgroup. I know how you feel about that...;0o

davers_disfellowshiped
Letz ExPozem Goode
2004-01-11 22:27:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by L Perez
Mark,
I'm glad someone is exposing carol but really, she is pretty much ignored
around here so I think you have made her entire year 2004 a success in her
pitiful state
=========================
I pity you L Perez,... so much pity........ so much pity. Oh the pity....
:-)
You're so pitiful you can't even intelligently defend your own beliefs,
you poor pitiful world traveler.
We're still waiting for the list of all the countries you went to to learn
of their religions and who footed the bills. Also how long did it take?
I'm sure the JWs on this NG also want to know.
--
Momma Mia....
Some fine artwork from the Watchtower Society
"NOTE: Not recommended for children."
http://www.intrex.net/talley/WT_Home1.html
http://www.jwfiles.com/child.htm
http://www.jwfiles.com/art/Babylon1963p577.htm
http://www.jwfiles.com/outline.htm <-- excellent site - contains WTS rag
scans.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~><>
L Perez
2004-01-09 10:42:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Nolalu Barn Owl
Post by Becky
even if they have to go to a funeral?
This question has numerous answers.
ANY sinner is allowed to enter a Roman Catholic Church even a
Jehovah's Witness but they are NOT allowed to receive Holy Communion.
LOL! you forget I was a catholic... the fact is that *ANYONE* who pays some
money can get a wafer
--
BEWARE! there are people on this newsgroup who are only here to slander and
lie about Jehovah's Witnesses. They do not offer any alternative
organization... as a matter of fact, some are admitted atheists (Matthew
12:30; John 8:44-47) I have all of their posts filtered out because they can
not hold an intelligent conversation and often resort to lies. They claim to
be quoting from Watch Tower literature but these are *NOT* exact quotes,
they change words and quote things out of context. I don't respond to
spurious fabrications. Hence if you see that I am not answering someone, it
is because their previous attempts at deception have earned them a place in
the 'block sender' file. They exist here only to destroy (1 Corinthians
10:6-11) They speak not as Christians (Ephesians 4:31-32) I do not need to
name them for by their fruits you will recognize them (Matthew 7:16-20) One
has to wonder, why was a newsgroup set up to attack this *one* organization?
Matthew 5:10-12
Warren Pease
2004-01-09 19:30:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by L Perez
LOL! you forget I was a catholic... the fact is that *ANYONE* who pays some
money can get a wafer
==============
LOL! and LOL! again. :-) You forgot 1/2 my family are/were catholic and
got wafers for FREE! Yep,... the church didn't demand one penny for the
wafer. So tell us, does the WTS now give away for FREE all it's
magazines, books, CDs and bastard version of the bible? Where can one
apply to get all the FREE stuff from the WTS?
--
Mikrobez...
L Perez has claimed to have the 100% CORRECT interpretation of scripture
from 20 years of "private" study. Not at any University or Institute of
Higher Learning you understand... but right in the comfort of his own
home. So far he has claimed HIMSELF to have the PERFECT interpretation
and understanding of ALL SCRIPTURE - so why bother discussing the meaning
with him? He's perfect like Jesus Christ. Next he'll want you all to
fall to your knees and perform some act of worship at his feet.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ><>
The Nolalu Barn Owl
2004-01-10 03:04:17 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 9 Jan 2004 13:30:13 -0600, "Warren Pease"
Post by Warren Pease
Post by L Perez
LOL! you forget I was a catholic... the fact is that *ANYONE* who pays
some
Post by L Perez
money can get a wafer
==============
LOL! and LOL! again. :-) You forgot 1/2 my family are/were catholic and
got wafers for FREE! Yep,... the church didn't demand one penny for the
wafer. So tell us, does the WTS now give away for FREE all it's
magazines, books, CDs and bastard version of the bible? Where can one
apply to get all the FREE stuff from the WTS?
What I said was true but it doesn't mean that all will follow. FWIIW
I have a JW bible - The New World Translation in my possession and the
last JW's that came calling have a Douey so ???
--
Gordie

"Remember: every sect in the world feeds off of the Catholic Church.
Our Holy Catholic Church is like a great and extremely precious
unpolished diamond, from which every so often somebody takes a particle
and polishes it--not without the help of the evil one--so that it begins
to shine better that the great unpolished diamond. And this shine draws
men, dazzles them and deceives them, so that the particle necessarily is
worn out and comes to nothing. This is the game of deception, which
appears and reappears with time. Jesus warned us to watch out for it!"
Padre (Saint) Pio - Stories of Padre Pio p.60
by Madame Katharina Tangari
ISBN 0-89555-536-0
Terry/AntiWT
2004-01-10 10:01:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Nolalu Barn Owl
On Fri, 9 Jan 2004 13:30:13 -0600, "Warren Pease"
Post by Warren Pease
Post by L Perez
LOL! you forget I was a catholic... the fact is that *ANYONE* who pays
some
Post by L Perez
money can get a wafer
==============
LOL! and LOL! again. :-) You forgot 1/2 my family are/were catholic and
got wafers for FREE! Yep,... the church didn't demand one penny for the
wafer. So tell us, does the WTS now give away for FREE all it's
magazines, books, CDs and bastard version of the bible? Where can one
apply to get all the FREE stuff from the WTS?
What I said was true but it doesn't mean that all will follow. FWIIW
I have a JW bible - The New World Translation in my possession and the
last JW's that came calling have a Douey so ???
--
Gordie
I believe that The WT, by convincing it's followers to not take the bread
and wine, is a killer souls.

Gramps
Mark Gonzales
2004-01-10 11:14:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Terry/AntiWT
I believe that The WT, by convincing it's followers to not take the bread
and wine, is a killer souls.
Gramps
I've taken some of the bread and wine after it was all over and they both
sucked. ;-)

No, really, nasty stuff.
--


Mark
}<((((o>
2004-01-10 19:31:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Terry/AntiWT
I believe that The WT, by convincing it's followers to not take the bread
and wine, is a killer souls.
=====================
And look how much $$$ it saves the congs/WTS.

Us and we.....
The Watchtower and Jehovah's Witnesses do not
believe in charity. But what does the bible say?
The bible says give charity according to one's means
(Deut. 15:11)
*************************************************************
=^..^=
2004-01-10 04:10:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by L Perez
LOL! you forget I was a catholic... the fact is that *ANYONE* who pays some
money can get a wafer
===========================
Only in the KHs perhaps,.... not in any churches I've ever been in. :-)

No wait, only select JWs get the goodies.... the others get to watch.
--
Mikrobez...
L Perez has claimed to have the 100% CORRECT interpretation of scripture
from 20 years of "private" study. Not at any University or Institute of
Higher Learning you understand... but right in the comfort of his own
home. So far he has claimed HIMSELF to have the PERFECT interpretation
and understanding of ALL SCRIPTURE - so why bother discussing the meaning
with him? He's perfect like Jesus Christ. Next he'll want you all to
fall to your knees and perform some act of worship at his feet.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ><>
Continue reading on narkive:
Loading...